Post by Paddy by Grace on May 21, 2010 15:02:11 GMT -7
Scientists play God: Synthetic cells are given life
The breakthrough might eventually lead to the creation of cells to produce medicines and fuels, or combat climate change by absorbing greenhouse gases.
Experts yesterday hailed the discovery, which follows many years of painstaking work by scientists around the world. But there were also warnings about the possible pitfalls of creating artificial life in this way, including the potential for it to be used by bioterrorists.
So-called synthetic biology is being explored around the globe, with Edinburgh University among the leading centres in the UK.
Yesterday, Professor Ian Wilmut, the Dolly the sheep pioneer, described the breakthrough as a "step forward in our ability to breed organisms with specific and desirable abilities". The discovery was made by maverick genetics entrepreneur Dr Craig Venter and his team in the United States.
While the new cell has been dubbed by some a "Frankenstein's monster", scientists expressed wonder at the potential for such work to change humanity's future radically.
• Richard Kitney: 'This would just not be possible in the back of a garage'
Dr Venter defended himself against accusations that he was "playing God", saying: "That's a term that comes up every time there is a medical or scientific breakthrough associated with biology. It's been a goal of humanity from the earliest stages to control nature … that's how we got domesticated animals.
"This is the next stage in our understanding. It is a baby step in our understanding of how life fundamentally works and maybe how we can get some new handles on trying to control these microbial systems to benefit humanity."
Professor Julian Savulescu, Uehiro chair in practical ethics at Oxford University, said Dr Venter was "going towards the role of a god" by creating artificial life that could never have existed naturally.
Ethical campaigners also expressed concerns about the potential for the technology to be misused. The watchdog group Human Genetics Alert called for a moratorium on "synthetic life" research until there had been a full public debate and an effective system of global regulation was in place.
Director Dr David King said: "What is really dangerous is these scientists' ambitions for total and unrestrained control over nature, which many people describe as 'playing God'."
To create the man-made cell, Dr Venter's team started by mapping the genome – an organism's entire genetic make-up – of a bacterium called Mycoplasma mycoides. Another team then used this code to recreate the genome in a synthetic form, using chemicals rather than biological material.
These chemical blocks were pasted together by Dr Venter and his colleagues to create a complete synthetic copy of the original genome. This artificial material was then placed into another type of bacterium, which had its own genetic material taken out, creating a synthetic cell – though only the genome was synthetic.
Dr Venter and his colleagues created a code, similar to Morse code, to "write" within the DNA itself. They used the sequence of four DNA chemicals – thymine, guanine, cytosine and adenine – as a code for any letter, number or punctuation mark.
Using the code, the team included the names of the study co-authors, an e-mail address and even philosophical quotes, as a distinctive "watermark" on the synthetic genome.
Dr Venter likened the synthetic chromosome – the collection of genetic material – to new "software" which then "booted up" the cell. Driven by the new genome, the bacteria took on the appearance and behaviour of the original cell, generating different proteins and multiplying. Describing the achievement in the journal Science, Dr Venter said: "This is the first synthetic cell that's been made, and we call it synthetic because the cell is totally derived from a synthetic chromosome.
"This is an important step, we think, scientifically and philosophically. It's certainly changed my views of the definitions of life and how life works."
Prof Wilmut, director of the Centre for Regenerative Medicine at Edinburgh University, said the researchers had shown "a great technical ability to modify an organism by introducing an entire genome in this way. Human beings have selected organisms with desirable abilities for our own use for many years. In this way, yeasts have been modified to make them more suitable for beer, wine or bread production.
"In time, this new research may make it possible to extend the range of purposes for which we are able to breed organisms dramatically and in ways that we cannot yet imagine."
But Dr King, of Human Genetics Alert, urged caution. "The claim of authorship of nature goes hand in hand with the claim to monopoly patent rights over it," he said. "Scientists' understanding of biology falls far short of their technical capabilities." He added: "We have already learned to our cost the risks that gap brings, for the environment, animal welfare and human health."
Ethics expert Prof Savulescu said: "Venter is creaking open the most profound door in humanity's history, potentially peeking into its destiny.
"This is a step towards something controversial: creation of living beings with capacities and natures that could never have naturally evolved.
"The potential is in the far future, but real and significant – dealing with pollution, new energy sources, new forms of communication. But the risks are also unparalleled.
"We need new standards of safety evaluation for this kind of radical research, and protections from military or terrorist misuse and abuse."
The research, published yesterday, marked the culmination of 15 years' effort at a total cost of about £30 million.
Page 1 of 1
Last Updated: 21 May 2010 11:28 AM
Source: The Scotsman
Location: Edinburgh
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1
Kronos,
20/05/2010 23:15:52
Nice picture of Hobbe at the top of the page there.Report Unsuitable2
Cynicus Unbound,
20/05/2010 23:42:58
"Nice picture of Hobbe at the top of the page there."-#1Kronos
Rubbish, Rufus.
That is clearly Olag Mor scared witless by the horror of the Britannia Cult.Report Unsuitable3
Cynicus Unbound,
20/05/2010 23:49:56
O brave new world,
That hath such creatures in't! Report Unsuitable4
Holly Golightly,
21/05/2010 00:03:34
It's Jim Murphy before he puts his make up and girdle on. Report Unsuitable5
Charles Linskaill,
Edinburgh 21/05/2010 00:08:13
One of a scary thought to where it all will lead to, I think that we should all be concerned, afterall imagine our future governments just being a bunch of synthetic living cells.
Report Unsuitable6
Boy Wonder,
21/05/2010 00:13:23
Might've known all the cynics would get in early on this.
It was always going to happen sooner or later. We need these man-made microbial life-forms if our descendants are going to terraform planets orbitting distant stars.
We are never going to stay on one planet until the end of time you know! Report Unsuitable7
Kronos,
21/05/2010 00:13:30
#2 Cynicus Unbound
True. Looks like it could be a snapshot of Olag walking into his living room and discovering the Last Night of the Proms on his TV.Report Unsuitable8
Olag Mor,
21/05/2010 00:23:01
And here's me thinking it was a picture of your new boyfriend, Cynicus.
Report Unsuitable9
Handsome Scotsman,
Brechin 21/05/2010 00:25:52
Is this synthetic life story something to do with the Labour Leadership contest ?Report Unsuitable10
Olag Mor,
21/05/2010 00:27:37
Kronos, I don't have a TV. I won't give the Britannia Cult any money willingly.
I've hardly got any anyway as a result of not being in any cults like the funny handshakers of any ilk or any overtly religious versions either.
Still, I haven't been brainwashed like many have been.Report Unsuitable11
Handsome Scotsman,
Brechin 21/05/2010 00:30:56
Picture looks like Grahamski after a night in the sack with Jackie Baillie. Report Unsuitable12
Kronos,
21/05/2010 00:34:03
I think I know what the picture is now.
It is Dunedin Bully Wee discovering that the Scotsman has banned him again.Report Unsuitable13
Holly Golightly,
21/05/2010 00:35:51
Well it certainly isn't me - no little black dress or tiara. Report Unsuitable14
Olag Mor,
21/05/2010 00:36:33
He disnae look scared to me Cynicus.
He looks more like he is on the ran dan.Report Unsuitable15
Kronos,
21/05/2010 00:40:30
13
Holly Golightly,
21/05/2010 00:35:51
Well it certainly isn't me - no little black dress or tiara.
------------------------------------------
Yes, but have you seen the movie 'Frankensteins Bride'?Report Unsuitable16
Olag Mor,
21/05/2010 00:41:06
Cynicus, he wants to try oot his new synthetic extension that he got at a bargain price on the cybersphere.Report Unsuitable17
Olag Mor,
21/05/2010 00:43:47
The eyes say it all.Report Unsuitable18
Charles Linskaill,
Edinburgh 21/05/2010 00:44:43
Judging by the picture used, its well seeing the Scotsman News, stance on this news item, they either are comedians, or are extremely worried!
Report Unsuitable19
knebin,
21/05/2010 00:48:24
which follows many years of painstaking work by scientists around the world
I bet it was full of painReport Unsuitable20
The Future Ghost of Arthur Scargill,
21/05/2010 00:51:10
Just Tabloid, Chick.
Not to be taken seriously.Report Unsuitable21
Kronos,
21/05/2010 00:51:30
Okay, I have to bolt.
Goodnight.Report Unsuitable22
knebin,
21/05/2010 00:53:29
vivisection is legal
Report Unsuitable23
Holly Golightly,
21/05/2010 00:56:14
15 Yes the '35 version was cool looking, but didn't have a tiara.
Anyway I am glad we are having a laugh because frankly the story headline is hysterical in my view.
Scientific issues should be discussed in a scientific way, which rules out emotive hysteria. Report Unsuitable24
Charles Linskaill,
Edinburgh 21/05/2010 00:59:10
When I was a Child I thought Frankenstein was a comedy show, I am not so certain now,
"Who's that at my door"!?,.....'Oh My God'!!
Report Unsuitable25
Handsome Scotsman,
Brechin 21/05/2010 01:11:37
Looks like an average punter at Ninewells Outpatients.
Maybe Iain Grey was right about the NHS cuts after all.Report Unsuitable26
Cynicus Unbound,
21/05/2010 01:13:12
"He disnae look scared to me Cynicus.
He looks more like he is on the ran dan"-#14,Olag Mor
You're Right!
It's ME!!
Taken sometime between 30 December and 2 January.
Report Unsuitable27
knebin,
21/05/2010 01:16:42
Glory the animals gone and going before us to our victoryReport Unsuitable28
Charles Linskaill,
Edinburgh 21/05/2010 01:25:05
~25.
Handsome Scotsman,
Now I know one of the ones who wrote off my car, the police told me it was two escapees from Ninewells joyriding in a stolen car,
Question being, Who or What was the other one?
Report Unsuitable29
dilios de brus,
A family without a mum. 21/05/2010 01:29:22
i remember when test tube baby was born, and then came IVF, the females that thought it very smart to say men were no longer required.
Well, ladies, how does it feel?Report Unsuitable30
Charles Linskaill,
Edinburgh 21/05/2010 01:45:51
~29.
dilios de brus,
A little anger quantified in your comment.
I think it more of a press sensation, other than,...
..."the females that thought it very smart to say men were no longer required".
Report Unsuitable31
dilios de brus,
21/05/2010 01:51:35
no Charles,no anger what-so-ever, just thought it servery to point out the obvious now that both males and females are 'no longer required'.
As far as transferred intersubjectivity over pc's Charles, I'd love to hear you explain it sir.Report Unsuitable32
Handsome Scotsman,
Brechin 21/05/2010 02:03:01
Looks like me in 5 hours when Ive got to get up.
Night !Report Unsuitable33
Charles Linskaill,
Edinburgh 21/05/2010 02:11:14
~31.
dilios de brus,
Psychology is not my department, at times I wish it was,
But being through soo many life situations, I pick up on things and feelings very quickly,
I detected an overall impression, it may however was wrong, but your comment at #29 held interest after your user name,...
..."A family without a mum"
And 'of-course' the one of IVF to-which I went through with my wife for six long years.
I just thought you had much more to say in depth, but had reservations to explain your feelings.
Report Unsuitable34
knebin,
21/05/2010 02:14:51
Subject
Synthetic stem cells
Report Unsuitable35
knebin,
21/05/2010 02:15:45
Charles feelings?Report Unsuitable36
knebin,
21/05/2010 02:21:45
NO VIVISECTION Report Unsuitable37
Charles Linskaill,
Edinburgh 21/05/2010 02:25:25
~35.
knebin,
"feelings", As in reading the mind, nothing more!
It is of great ability to have this sense, something these new darned new life of synthetic living cells will never have!
In my Bed I will only have a Real Woman, how can one cuddle and snuggle a Woman made from synthetic living cells, you would be better of with a 'Blow-up-Doll'.
Report Unsuitable38
Charles Linskaill,
Edinburgh 21/05/2010 02:36:24
I might be the last creature on Planet Earth to be the genuine product of civilization, and of being Human!
Enjoy me while you can, appreciate your Charles!,
Because Very Soon all will be no longer Real, as the one of Frankenstein is becoming a reality.
Report Unsuitable39
knebin,
21/05/2010 02:51:10
*Please enter your comment*Report Unsuitable40
Baggy Troosers,
21/05/2010 03:39:38
re-photo
Iain Gray just out of his bed.Report Unsuitable41
Baggy Troosers,
21/05/2010 03:41:18
The real yeah1.Report Unsuitable42
Baggy Troosers,
21/05/2010 03:42:43
Its Rufus! aka The creature from the Black lagoonReport Unsuitable43
knebin,
21/05/2010 03:43:30
nice to get a real conversation going
Animal rightsReport Unsuitable44
Baggy Troosers,
21/05/2010 03:43:52
Its Grahamski ,just out of the chit hoose.
three arfs and a chortle.Report Unsuitable45
knebin,
21/05/2010 03:44:28
Thread ShmedsReport Unsuitable46
Baggy Troosers,
21/05/2010 04:26:12
Just having a bit of fun before the Nu-Nu-Labour wooly eyed brigade exit their Kennels for another day of sneering.Report Unsuitable47
Greig Arius,
21/05/2010 04:55:36
It's Alive..It's alive....It's.....aliiiiiive
Report Unsuitable48
Kronos,
21/05/2010 05:19:01
Re Picture:
Baggy Troosers realises he has mislaid his blow up doll.Report Unsuitable49
Kronos,
21/05/2010 05:23:38
Observer spots Muriel Grey on Loose Women.Report Unsuitable50
Kronos,
21/05/2010 05:29:42
Traquir switches on his TV to watch Eorpa only to discover it has been replaced by 'Today at the Olympics'.Report Unsuitable51
Handsome Scotsman,
Brechin 21/05/2010 05:48:07
Well thats me up. Too warm to sleep.
Have checked in mirror and Im still handsome thankfully.Report Unsuitable52
Billy Boy,
Sherman Oaks Californiacation 21/05/2010 05:58:53
This is a very serious subject, why does everyone seem to be taken by the picture of george Bush before his surgery. Just think, these cyantists could very well use him as the model!Report Unsuitable53
Ben Thehoose,
21/05/2010 06:50:30
As a panentheist I see no problem here, other than the new cells somehow running amuck.
Frankenstein built his un named creature to improve the world. It worked too for a while until humans so slagged the creature that it turned against its maker. Quite a serious parable really and far far from the Hollywood krappe.Report Unsuitable54
Baggy Troosers,
21/05/2010 07:28:40
Kronos heading to his computer for another day shift.Report Unsuitable55
Baggy Troosers,
21/05/2010 07:30:10
The end result of Gordon Broon and Maggie Thatcher's love tryst.Report Unsuitable56
Baggy Troosers,
21/05/2010 07:30:47
Maggie thatcher before the make-up.Report Unsuitable57
Baggy Troosers,
21/05/2010 07:31:11
Gordon Broon before the make-up.Report Unsuitable58
Baggy Troosers,
21/05/2010 07:39:29
Yeah1 looking for a friend.Report Unsuitable59
Unimpressed one,
21/05/2010 07:50:40
Another area of scientific research that the green luddites can condemn. Still one has to wonder, if this was done because it 'was possible' as opposed to 'was necessary'.Report Unsuitable60
Reaper the Whirlwind,
Dublin Fair City 21/05/2010 07:56:21
So that's how it's done! A computer and four bottles of chemicals!
God, what next? Report Unsuitable61
SassyC,
21/05/2010 07:56:54
29:
Dilios.............there will always be a need for men...a world without men would be a lesser place.Report Unsuitable62
SassyC,
21/05/2010 07:59:48
How do Scientists propose to create the one thing that makes us all unique.........the very essence of our being - our soul?Report Unsuitable63
Media for one,
21/05/2010 08:24:52
SassyC - First you need to determine if there is such a thing as a soul. I very much doubt that the scientists will be doing anything that has not already been done before, and there is every chance that you, me and everybody else are also clones.Report Unsuitable64
M78,
Tain 21/05/2010 08:26:19
Makes a change from anti S.N.P. jackanories, however Maddox is still in full song today as usual.Report Unsuitable65
SassyC,
21/05/2010 08:42:02
63:
And what is it that makes us all different.......all unique, pray tell? I do not need that the onus is on me to prove there is a soul.....
Hey, I know we are not clones though. At least not all of us. You see I advocate independence for Scotland and there are many on these threads who do not. So, your theory we are all clones is not quite factual...Report Unsuitable66
SassyC,
21/05/2010 08:43:19
65: Sorry typo - I do not consider that the onus is on me etc. (as opposed to need)Report Unsuitable67
shrek4,
21/05/2010 08:45:20
One of Jim Murphy's better ones, but is that his third home? :)Report Unsuitable68
Lianachan,
Highlands 21/05/2010 08:47:49
Making bacteria that can excrete diesel? Bacteria that can produce better medicines and at a fraction of the cost? Bring it on, I say, and the sooner the better.Report Unsuitable69
lipeshends,
21/05/2010 08:52:56
What a brainless article. What biological materials are not made of chemicals? The potential is now you dork, though the realisation may be far off. If this is the standard I sense a new career as a science writer beckoning.Report Unsuitable70
Méths,
21/05/2010 09:03:30
Mother?Report Unsuitable71
Méths,
21/05/2010 09:06:12
... and elsewhere ...
"Coalition threatens to steal SNP's thunder over alcohol pricing "
Hmm...Report Unsuitable72
Sedov,
21/05/2010 09:16:26
The SUN is slowly sinking over the Scotsman as their once proud title of a quality Scottish paper newspaper takes another knock with this awful headline and a photo of a fictitious character, Frnkenstein.
So instead of heralding this as a scientific breakthrough which will go on like many other 'controversial discoveries', to save lives and extend peoples quality of life they resort to the sensationalism of the gutter press.
Yes, I know that these discoveries are more about US corporate profit than saving lives ,but at least this example is not creating another atom bomb.Report Unsuitable73
Vigilant Watcher,
Bo'ness 21/05/2010 09:21:34
You can't play God! There IS NO God! When will commentators start to live in the real world that exists now?
As someone has already pointed out 'biological material' is made up of chemicals and just what does Human Genetic Alert mean by 'synthetic life'?
It's a 'synthetic cell' for 'GOD's sake' not life! It's taken evolution millions of years to create life and synthetic cells have a long way to go before they take over the planet!Report Unsuitable74
SassyC,
21/05/2010 09:27:20
73:
'You can't play God! There IS NO GOD'!..
Your opinion surely?
In reality - there is no absolute reality...Report Unsuitable75
Lianachan,
Highlands 21/05/2010 09:31:55
#73 God gets no more upset about folk playing Him than do James Bond, Darth Vader or any other fictional character.Report Unsuitable76
Gruntfuttock,
21/05/2010 09:40:31
What a childishly stupid title along with the predictable clichéd picture of Frankenstein's monster.
God (if he/she/it exists)save us from the humanities-educated illiterati that write such drivel.Report Unsuitable77
Sumlogic,
21/05/2010 09:57:05
How can humans 'being products of nature' do anything unnatural, we would have to somehow step out of the universe...being a product of nature, these creations seem simply another step in an evolutionary process, although many wont like that based on say religious thinking, remember the quote, "Greater things than these yea shall do" all makes perfect sense really...Report Unsuitable78
Himself,
Cambridge 21/05/2010 10:05:47
Vigilant Watcher, what an interesting fairy story about evolution. How do we get from a one cell organisim to a male and female human being. Two creatures that happen to develop at the same time and by a coincidence that takes more than faith to believe that they could both develop in such a way that they would have reproductive organs compatible to such an extent that they could reproduce either of the originals. The timing would also have to be so precise in your millions of years that if you had one without the other, the first might die before the other sex had matured, otherwise the race would die out before the first child. Then of course if like some families the first couple had all children of one sex then again the human race would not exist. This applies equally to all creatures where a male and female are required to reproduce. Maybe God only gave powers of reasoning to a few. The Bible does advise us to ask God for wisdom, perhaps you are asking in the wrong place. What has Wilmott to do with Dolly the Sheep, remember the Scottish Sun Headline "I took the Lolly but did not make Dolly" or something similar! The Scotsman also needs to quote someone who knows what they are talking about.Report Unsuitable79
Media for one,
21/05/2010 10:18:03
Science is amazing, unlike religion science offers us answers, it does not allow ancient texts written by powerful scribes with an agenda to influence modern thought. Science asks questions and without science we would all be of the belief that the Earth was flat and at the centre of the universe, we would believe that homosexuality was a sin and that people who practice it should be killed, we would essentially be nothing more than indoctrinated zombies with no authority to think for ourselves, so Science IS GOD, in my opinion that is.
Of course not all people think like that and their need for a God and an afterlife is part and parcel of who they are. I respect that, people who attend church and fall on their knees to worship do as they do because that is what makes them tick, it is what they need, it is their belief and that is that. I have been critical of believers in the past but I made a mistake in doing that and I admit it, we all have room for growth, and in that regard I respect other people's beliefs.
I personally see no problem with science creating human life, it has to go that way it is unavaoidable! If we look at the evolution of human behaviour and invention as well as medical procdures in the last 100 years, it is obvious that the next 100 years will bring us a new type of human who will look back at us and be astounded that we did not have the capacity to chose our children. They will not understand how blindness could happen, they will laugh that we looked through binoculars to zoom in as opposed to our own eyes - And mothers in the new world will look back in 150 years and wonder how the hell ancient women carried a baby in their stomach for 9 months, where is the equality in that they will argue. Yip, the career woman will just lend an egg and pick up her off-spring when it's ready. No mess no fuss, a shocking thought for us here and now, but maybe not so much for future woman.Report Unsuitable80
Ulster Protestant,
21/05/2010 10:18:04
What rubbish - this so called scientist used "bacterium" from a live goat - it is hardly creating life is it - God alone is the giver and taker of life, and man will never replicate it. All would do well to focused on the fact that it is appointed unto man once to die, and after this, the judgement. Only those united to Jesus Christ by faith alone will have everlasting life.Report Unsuitable81
Jo Public,
21/05/2010 10:26:32
This is nothing new. There have been synthetic cells in the brain of Iain Gray for some time and it shows at FMQs.Report Unsuitable82
Media for one,
21/05/2010 10:27:38
Ulster - I dont know you, but a good wind-up nonetheless. Report Unsuitable83
Lianachan,
Highlands 21/05/2010 10:33:57
#79 I've always thought the universe was wonderful enough, without seeing the need to invoke some sort of Big Sky Fairy to account for it.Report Unsuitable84
Shah Hoorsur,
21/05/2010 10:40:08
Is this really a first? Wasn't Yeah1 the product of an earlier experiment?Report Unsuitable85
Media for one,
21/05/2010 11:00:43
I suppose it is all about personal questions. When I was growing up I believed in God, in many ways I feared God because I knew that he would kill me if I didn’t behave just as he did in the bible on so many occasions. Jesus, the apparent son of God was a lot friendlier, he was cool, he was forgiving and I got so confused because all that was wrong in the world of God was now ok in the world of Jesus.
Anyway, I remember being told that god didn’t get involved in natural disaster, a far removed attitude to the days when he parted seas and turned wooden sticks to snakes, made people and even animals. The earthquake was bad, I remember many people were hurt and how it had nothing to do with god, because he really didn’t influence such things. Then I heard people praying for god to help the people, but I knew they were wasting their time because he didn’t get involved. And they were right, because no matter how hard they prayed at one disaster, another one would follow somewhere else at some other time, only for them to pray again.
I just don’t need god, I hate the thought of a god and the thought of heaven and hell repulses me. But that is my belief and it makes me happy to know that I am so liberated and free.
As one of my old teachers used to say; perhaps the bible is a trick; perhaps god has never spoken or been involved with man, only observed following creation. Maybe the bible is the work of the devil and all the people who buy into it without EVER questioning it or hearing directly from god are doomed for hell for being so easily duped. After all, when you know who you are, you know who you are, trying to prove it through robes, staffs, prayer, crosses, emblems, church, songs and readings is in a sense, perverted and un pure, a sort of desperation.
Report Unsuitable86
SassyC,
21/05/2010 11:15:50
85:
It hasn't been easy for you that is obvious. No child should have to fear God....
So many issues for us all to explore in a lifetime. Trying to make sense of it all.....
Sometimes it seems easier not to believe...not to have to think of it at all.
Once you have faith though............you realise that nothing compares. Love is all. Love conquers all. And if you read the little Prayer about the footprints in the sand then comes the realisation that you were carried after all; even if it didn't seem like it at the time. And that is why I believe and could never not believe...Report Unsuitable87
Lianachan,
Highlands 21/05/2010 11:18:43
#85 Said by Loki, in the film Dogma:
That poem, "The Walrus and the Carpenter," that's an indictment of organized religion. The walrus, with his girth and his good nature, he obviously represents either Buddha, or, or with his tusks, the Hindu elephant god, Lord Ganesha. That takes care of your Eastern religions. Now the carpenter, which is an obvious reference to Jesus Christ, who was raised a carpenter's son, he represents the Western religions. Now in the poem, what do they do? What do they do? They, they dupe all these oysters into following them and then proceed to shuck and devour the helpless creatures en masse. I don't know what that says to you, but to me it says that following these faiths based on mythological figures ensures the destruction of one's inner being. Organized religion destroys who we are by inhibiting our actions, by inhibiting our decisions out of, out of fear of some, some intangible parent figure who, who shakes a finger at us from thousands of years ago and says, and says, "Do it... do it and I'll f*ckin' sp@nk you." Report Unsuitable88
SassyC,
21/05/2010 11:22:26
87;
We are all different. Different beliefs and different values and that is okay...believing to some is the destruction of one's inner being, believing to others is the very essence of it...
wouldn't do if we were all the same, would it?Report Unsuitable89
FrankyB,
21/05/2010 11:24:31
#80
didn't you read the article? The DNA (which states who and what we are) was made in a lab from standard chemicals. The housing they injected this into was nothing more than a protein house which can easily be manufactured synthetically at a later date with yet more synthetic proteins.
There is no 'life force' in the surrounding 'jelly'.
This proves that 'life can come from nothing'. Your god was not required to 'breathe life into it'. We did it ourselves. Get the picture?
This is the manfuacture of life. And what can be manufactured can be modified. We do not need god to create life. We do not need god to dictate morals.
We can do this ourselves.
This proves that all religions are just plain stupid. All those who profess them are plain stupid. All those who follow them are plain stupid.
Well done.
Mankind 1 your omnipotent God 0.
Report Unsuitable90
Keith Mac,
Edinburgh 21/05/2010 11:43:59
And man made God in his own image.Report Unsuitable91
Patrick Stewart,
21/05/2010 11:57:09
I wondered why everyone was comparing pictures of synthetic cells to Jim Murphy et al..take it the picture was of Frankenstein's monster at some point earlier?Report Unsuitable92
Shah Hoorsur,
21/05/2010 12:59:32
#91,
Mr Frankenstein was shocked and appalled at the comparison and threatened legal action, so they binned his photie.Report Unsuitable93
Iain Mac,
21/05/2010 13:00:00
So, can the Scotsman prove the existence of this 'god' character?Report Unsuitable94
,
21/05/2010 13:02:43
Comment Removed By AdministratorReason: 95
,
21/05/2010 13:02:56
Comment Removed By AdministratorReason: 96
Lianachan,
Highlands 21/05/2010 13:17:55
#93 The Scotsman doesn't do investigative journalism, sorry. If Labour released a statement proving it, they'd print that.Report Unsuitable97
Richard Lionheart,
21/05/2010 13:35:30
What a headline!
Scientists a step closer to playing “a media proclaimed non existent being”
Does this step for mankind not fall foul of what we are told is the commonly held belief of the “Big Bang theory” where things just come into being!
Maybe this “cell” just came into being and the Scientist didn’t know what to do about it!
It is interesting that the article highlights that one of the main uses for this “cell” maybe to suck CO2 out of the atmosphere and therefore bring an end to humanity!
The fact that CO2 is not a pollutant but a requirement for our survival is still currently lost on our beloved politicians. One day reality will hit them! Hopefully before this “cell” sucks all the CO2 out of the atmosphere and kills off the plant life/crops we need to survive on.
Report Unsuitable98
Richard Lionheart,
21/05/2010 13:52:22
#79 Media for one says: - “Science is amazing, unlike religion science offers us answers, it does not allow ancient texts written by powerful scribes with an agenda to influence modern thought.....”
Sorry to disappoint you. Science offers answers but does not always offer complete answers. Science can only offer the answers as far as understanding of the matter being investigated by science has reached, and beyond that the answer(s) offered by science can change on an hourly or daily basis or even after hundreds of years.
Just ask anyone who was delayed by volcanic “ash cloud” they will tell you!
As far as the ”Ancient Texts” you refer to, Christianity refers to the Bible and it certainly does provide a full view of where mankind comes from and goes to and all the murky activity that humans will and have got up to over the millennia.
As the TV soap writers would say, it is a picture of real modern life!
Report Unsuitable99
Lianachan,
Highlands 21/05/2010 14:21:03
#98 Do not make the mistake of taking the Bible literally, or as a history book!Report Unsuitable100
Rab Sp8,
21/05/2010 14:29:05
What a lazy piece of journalism and disgraceful headline. Why does every science article in the press have to mention Frankenstein and Playing God?
How about journalists coming at these articles from a positive point of view instead of the default view that scientists are all evil? How about trying to actually understand the science and its potential before putting out a front page article?
Its a good job that scientists aren't all put off doing any more research and leaving people in the future to starve, freeze from lack of fuel, have no chemicals with which to manufacture just about everything we need to survive and live.
This work is just part of a whole field of research looking into how we can make things like chemicals for materials, fuels, drugs and a whole lot more in a sustainable way. We need this for our future.Report Unsuitable101
Méths,
21/05/2010 14:29:21
100 new species.Report Unsuitable102
Méths,
21/05/2010 14:30:08
Blast!Report Unsuitable103
Cynicus Unbound,
21/05/2010 17:08:52
Early posts above must be baffling to daytime readers.
The original pic was of Boris Karloff's iconic Frankenstein's monster.Report Unsuitable104
getinnnn,
21/05/2010 17:46:59
"This artificial material was then placed into another type of bacterium, which had its own genetic material taken out"...this other bacterium had the "life"...it could not have happened with artificial build.Report Unsuitable105
getinnnn,
21/05/2010 17:50:17
A living cell is a cell capable of "exibiting"Report Unsuitable106
Holly Golightly,
21/05/2010 18:00:27
They have taken away the picture of Jim Murphy and replaced it with some blobs.
So we are carrying on with the Labour Party theme then......Report Unsuitable107
david wayne osedach,
San Diego 21/05/2010 18:11:46
I haven't seen any successful cloning of humans yet.Report Unsuitable108
dilios de brus,
mr mojo risin 21/05/2010 18:34:39
Sassy C #'s 61 and 62, yes, that's the point I was originally making; but I find when I write in a manner that is not completely and fundamentally explanatory, I am intrigued to see the remarks; it usually has an ambiguous effect on those reading it.
I was taught this during analysis seminars; the questions you ask are so oblique that the analysand 'feels' compelled to fill in the blnks. It can be equated to viewing an 'impressionist' painting where the visual system is asked to fill in the blanks that the painter only left as an 'impression'.
This minimalistic writing procedure is in itself an artform because when taking a language like English, with all its presuppositions and pretexts, the bland and one dimensional text then becomes multi-dimensional as towards meaning and context.
I sometimes mispell words, and even leave out the con-joining words in sentences to see the 'effect' it has; somewhat similar to what Blake did in his poetry, and interestingly enough exactly how Cubism operates too.
Jim Morrison did a simialr thing with his double meaning lyrics; he was a hell of a shocker with his work. He once sang 'The End', at the Los Angeles 'Whisky a go-go niteclub about Freud's Oedipus complex, and the owners threw the band out and banned them for life. The crownd wen mad, they took the lyrics literally, and were forced to feel immoral regressions of their own complex's; the man was a genius.
It's an amazing thing to watch.Report Unsuitable109
dilios de brus,
A family with a mum. 21/05/2010 18:41:00
But to qualify my own self, i am a guy that thinks nothing can, (and shouldn't even be tried to), take the place of real women and real men; a family is the most important part of God's plan for us all.
Well, that's what i think anyway.
Report Unsuitable110
Nellie,
Liverpool 21/05/2010 19:45:14
80 Ulster Protestant said, "Only those united to Jesus Christ by faith alone will have everlasting life."
Well, that's me bu99ered - I'm a Buddhist.Report Unsuitable111
RDL,
21/05/2010 20:28:17
79-Media for one,
Quite thought provoking assertions you make. Science and religion are, it seems, incompatible. Science is king and man is the Architect of all great things created in science, sitting at the pinnacle of the evolutionary pyramid. Your view of the future is a little shaky and Utopian like happy ending science fiction movies. Scientific advancements do not always bring such happy myopic endings. i.e. Oppenheimer's development of the a- bomb, thalidomide etc . The reality of the past belies this dream, knowing the destructive and greed driven disposition of mans past and present, the future will always be uncertain . Certain natural events will always be beyond mans control i.e. volcanoes and earthquakes, and I dare say comet strikes , which could ultimately destroy us as surely as it wiped out the dinosaurs. We don’t control planet, the planet controls us as long as it allows us the privilege to inhabit it.This is probably the Machiavellian view of man-which isn't good.
Report Unsuitable112
SassyC,
21/05/2010 21:30:49
108: Dilios - I enjoyed reading your post. Often my sentences are not completely and fundamentally explanatory and I think I do that because I try to get people to think about things in an open way. By keeping it concise and vaguely worded there is more chance of that happening than if I were to put my own particular slant on it. It's a bit like throwing a bone and then seeing what the reaction is....and I am genuinely interested in what that is.
I particularly liked the part about Jim Morrison....that story made me laugh! One can imagine a club called Whisky A Go Go and the effect of that song on everybody.I would have loved to have been there watching that situation unfold! I would have laughed and laughed...
I too like to shock. Most of the time I don't shock... but once in a while the fun side of me likes to take people by surprise and then I sit back and laugh myself silly at the outcome! Such is life...wouldn't do if we all too predictable....and the bonus is when you take people by surprise it always let's them see you in a new light - which can be no bad thing!!Report Unsuitable113
Holly Golightly,
21/05/2010 21:50:57
111 Science is no more a God than God is. Science is a method of extracting information, how you put that to use is and always will be an ethical and moral consideration. The difference between science and religion is that science is based on empirical evidence, whereas religion is based on a belief system. Those who swap one belief system - religion - for another belief system, that science is of itself an answer to human problems are not really getting it.
Science is a tool, which can be used for good or for bad. In that way it can be seen as similar to religion. Report Unsuitable114
Kronos,
21/05/2010 22:49:23
113
Well said Observer.
At last, final confirmation that you know everything about everything.Report Unsuitable115
Thomas46,
Tyneside 21/05/2010 22:52:53
I don't think that the scientists would make the claims that this headline does. What they did was put a copy of a genome inside of an existing live cell. They gave life to nothing but maybe it's a breakthrough if the cell survived with a chemical soup in place of it's own genome. Report Unsuitable
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The breakthrough might eventually lead to the creation of cells to produce medicines and fuels, or combat climate change by absorbing greenhouse gases.
Experts yesterday hailed the discovery, which follows many years of painstaking work by scientists around the world. But there were also warnings about the possible pitfalls of creating artificial life in this way, including the potential for it to be used by bioterrorists.
So-called synthetic biology is being explored around the globe, with Edinburgh University among the leading centres in the UK.
Yesterday, Professor Ian Wilmut, the Dolly the sheep pioneer, described the breakthrough as a "step forward in our ability to breed organisms with specific and desirable abilities". The discovery was made by maverick genetics entrepreneur Dr Craig Venter and his team in the United States.
While the new cell has been dubbed by some a "Frankenstein's monster", scientists expressed wonder at the potential for such work to change humanity's future radically.
• Richard Kitney: 'This would just not be possible in the back of a garage'
Dr Venter defended himself against accusations that he was "playing God", saying: "That's a term that comes up every time there is a medical or scientific breakthrough associated with biology. It's been a goal of humanity from the earliest stages to control nature … that's how we got domesticated animals.
"This is the next stage in our understanding. It is a baby step in our understanding of how life fundamentally works and maybe how we can get some new handles on trying to control these microbial systems to benefit humanity."
Professor Julian Savulescu, Uehiro chair in practical ethics at Oxford University, said Dr Venter was "going towards the role of a god" by creating artificial life that could never have existed naturally.
Ethical campaigners also expressed concerns about the potential for the technology to be misused. The watchdog group Human Genetics Alert called for a moratorium on "synthetic life" research until there had been a full public debate and an effective system of global regulation was in place.
Director Dr David King said: "What is really dangerous is these scientists' ambitions for total and unrestrained control over nature, which many people describe as 'playing God'."
To create the man-made cell, Dr Venter's team started by mapping the genome – an organism's entire genetic make-up – of a bacterium called Mycoplasma mycoides. Another team then used this code to recreate the genome in a synthetic form, using chemicals rather than biological material.
These chemical blocks were pasted together by Dr Venter and his colleagues to create a complete synthetic copy of the original genome. This artificial material was then placed into another type of bacterium, which had its own genetic material taken out, creating a synthetic cell – though only the genome was synthetic.
Dr Venter and his colleagues created a code, similar to Morse code, to "write" within the DNA itself. They used the sequence of four DNA chemicals – thymine, guanine, cytosine and adenine – as a code for any letter, number or punctuation mark.
Using the code, the team included the names of the study co-authors, an e-mail address and even philosophical quotes, as a distinctive "watermark" on the synthetic genome.
Dr Venter likened the synthetic chromosome – the collection of genetic material – to new "software" which then "booted up" the cell. Driven by the new genome, the bacteria took on the appearance and behaviour of the original cell, generating different proteins and multiplying. Describing the achievement in the journal Science, Dr Venter said: "This is the first synthetic cell that's been made, and we call it synthetic because the cell is totally derived from a synthetic chromosome.
"This is an important step, we think, scientifically and philosophically. It's certainly changed my views of the definitions of life and how life works."
Prof Wilmut, director of the Centre for Regenerative Medicine at Edinburgh University, said the researchers had shown "a great technical ability to modify an organism by introducing an entire genome in this way. Human beings have selected organisms with desirable abilities for our own use for many years. In this way, yeasts have been modified to make them more suitable for beer, wine or bread production.
"In time, this new research may make it possible to extend the range of purposes for which we are able to breed organisms dramatically and in ways that we cannot yet imagine."
But Dr King, of Human Genetics Alert, urged caution. "The claim of authorship of nature goes hand in hand with the claim to monopoly patent rights over it," he said. "Scientists' understanding of biology falls far short of their technical capabilities." He added: "We have already learned to our cost the risks that gap brings, for the environment, animal welfare and human health."
Ethics expert Prof Savulescu said: "Venter is creaking open the most profound door in humanity's history, potentially peeking into its destiny.
"This is a step towards something controversial: creation of living beings with capacities and natures that could never have naturally evolved.
"The potential is in the far future, but real and significant – dealing with pollution, new energy sources, new forms of communication. But the risks are also unparalleled.
"We need new standards of safety evaluation for this kind of radical research, and protections from military or terrorist misuse and abuse."
The research, published yesterday, marked the culmination of 15 years' effort at a total cost of about £30 million.
Page 1 of 1
Last Updated: 21 May 2010 11:28 AM
Source: The Scotsman
Location: Edinburgh
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1
Kronos,
20/05/2010 23:15:52
Nice picture of Hobbe at the top of the page there.Report Unsuitable2
Cynicus Unbound,
20/05/2010 23:42:58
"Nice picture of Hobbe at the top of the page there."-#1Kronos
Rubbish, Rufus.
That is clearly Olag Mor scared witless by the horror of the Britannia Cult.Report Unsuitable3
Cynicus Unbound,
20/05/2010 23:49:56
O brave new world,
That hath such creatures in't! Report Unsuitable4
Holly Golightly,
21/05/2010 00:03:34
It's Jim Murphy before he puts his make up and girdle on. Report Unsuitable5
Charles Linskaill,
Edinburgh 21/05/2010 00:08:13
One of a scary thought to where it all will lead to, I think that we should all be concerned, afterall imagine our future governments just being a bunch of synthetic living cells.
Report Unsuitable6
Boy Wonder,
21/05/2010 00:13:23
Might've known all the cynics would get in early on this.
It was always going to happen sooner or later. We need these man-made microbial life-forms if our descendants are going to terraform planets orbitting distant stars.
We are never going to stay on one planet until the end of time you know! Report Unsuitable7
Kronos,
21/05/2010 00:13:30
#2 Cynicus Unbound
True. Looks like it could be a snapshot of Olag walking into his living room and discovering the Last Night of the Proms on his TV.Report Unsuitable8
Olag Mor,
21/05/2010 00:23:01
And here's me thinking it was a picture of your new boyfriend, Cynicus.
Report Unsuitable9
Handsome Scotsman,
Brechin 21/05/2010 00:25:52
Is this synthetic life story something to do with the Labour Leadership contest ?Report Unsuitable10
Olag Mor,
21/05/2010 00:27:37
Kronos, I don't have a TV. I won't give the Britannia Cult any money willingly.
I've hardly got any anyway as a result of not being in any cults like the funny handshakers of any ilk or any overtly religious versions either.
Still, I haven't been brainwashed like many have been.Report Unsuitable11
Handsome Scotsman,
Brechin 21/05/2010 00:30:56
Picture looks like Grahamski after a night in the sack with Jackie Baillie. Report Unsuitable12
Kronos,
21/05/2010 00:34:03
I think I know what the picture is now.
It is Dunedin Bully Wee discovering that the Scotsman has banned him again.Report Unsuitable13
Holly Golightly,
21/05/2010 00:35:51
Well it certainly isn't me - no little black dress or tiara. Report Unsuitable14
Olag Mor,
21/05/2010 00:36:33
He disnae look scared to me Cynicus.
He looks more like he is on the ran dan.Report Unsuitable15
Kronos,
21/05/2010 00:40:30
13
Holly Golightly,
21/05/2010 00:35:51
Well it certainly isn't me - no little black dress or tiara.
------------------------------------------
Yes, but have you seen the movie 'Frankensteins Bride'?Report Unsuitable16
Olag Mor,
21/05/2010 00:41:06
Cynicus, he wants to try oot his new synthetic extension that he got at a bargain price on the cybersphere.Report Unsuitable17
Olag Mor,
21/05/2010 00:43:47
The eyes say it all.Report Unsuitable18
Charles Linskaill,
Edinburgh 21/05/2010 00:44:43
Judging by the picture used, its well seeing the Scotsman News, stance on this news item, they either are comedians, or are extremely worried!
Report Unsuitable19
knebin,
21/05/2010 00:48:24
which follows many years of painstaking work by scientists around the world
I bet it was full of painReport Unsuitable20
The Future Ghost of Arthur Scargill,
21/05/2010 00:51:10
Just Tabloid, Chick.
Not to be taken seriously.Report Unsuitable21
Kronos,
21/05/2010 00:51:30
Okay, I have to bolt.
Goodnight.Report Unsuitable22
knebin,
21/05/2010 00:53:29
vivisection is legal
Report Unsuitable23
Holly Golightly,
21/05/2010 00:56:14
15 Yes the '35 version was cool looking, but didn't have a tiara.
Anyway I am glad we are having a laugh because frankly the story headline is hysterical in my view.
Scientific issues should be discussed in a scientific way, which rules out emotive hysteria. Report Unsuitable24
Charles Linskaill,
Edinburgh 21/05/2010 00:59:10
When I was a Child I thought Frankenstein was a comedy show, I am not so certain now,
"Who's that at my door"!?,.....'Oh My God'!!
Report Unsuitable25
Handsome Scotsman,
Brechin 21/05/2010 01:11:37
Looks like an average punter at Ninewells Outpatients.
Maybe Iain Grey was right about the NHS cuts after all.Report Unsuitable26
Cynicus Unbound,
21/05/2010 01:13:12
"He disnae look scared to me Cynicus.
He looks more like he is on the ran dan"-#14,Olag Mor
You're Right!
It's ME!!
Taken sometime between 30 December and 2 January.
Report Unsuitable27
knebin,
21/05/2010 01:16:42
Glory the animals gone and going before us to our victoryReport Unsuitable28
Charles Linskaill,
Edinburgh 21/05/2010 01:25:05
~25.
Handsome Scotsman,
Now I know one of the ones who wrote off my car, the police told me it was two escapees from Ninewells joyriding in a stolen car,
Question being, Who or What was the other one?
Report Unsuitable29
dilios de brus,
A family without a mum. 21/05/2010 01:29:22
i remember when test tube baby was born, and then came IVF, the females that thought it very smart to say men were no longer required.
Well, ladies, how does it feel?Report Unsuitable30
Charles Linskaill,
Edinburgh 21/05/2010 01:45:51
~29.
dilios de brus,
A little anger quantified in your comment.
I think it more of a press sensation, other than,...
..."the females that thought it very smart to say men were no longer required".
Report Unsuitable31
dilios de brus,
21/05/2010 01:51:35
no Charles,no anger what-so-ever, just thought it servery to point out the obvious now that both males and females are 'no longer required'.
As far as transferred intersubjectivity over pc's Charles, I'd love to hear you explain it sir.Report Unsuitable32
Handsome Scotsman,
Brechin 21/05/2010 02:03:01
Looks like me in 5 hours when Ive got to get up.
Night !Report Unsuitable33
Charles Linskaill,
Edinburgh 21/05/2010 02:11:14
~31.
dilios de brus,
Psychology is not my department, at times I wish it was,
But being through soo many life situations, I pick up on things and feelings very quickly,
I detected an overall impression, it may however was wrong, but your comment at #29 held interest after your user name,...
..."A family without a mum"
And 'of-course' the one of IVF to-which I went through with my wife for six long years.
I just thought you had much more to say in depth, but had reservations to explain your feelings.
Report Unsuitable34
knebin,
21/05/2010 02:14:51
Subject
Synthetic stem cells
Report Unsuitable35
knebin,
21/05/2010 02:15:45
Charles feelings?Report Unsuitable36
knebin,
21/05/2010 02:21:45
NO VIVISECTION Report Unsuitable37
Charles Linskaill,
Edinburgh 21/05/2010 02:25:25
~35.
knebin,
"feelings", As in reading the mind, nothing more!
It is of great ability to have this sense, something these new darned new life of synthetic living cells will never have!
In my Bed I will only have a Real Woman, how can one cuddle and snuggle a Woman made from synthetic living cells, you would be better of with a 'Blow-up-Doll'.
Report Unsuitable38
Charles Linskaill,
Edinburgh 21/05/2010 02:36:24
I might be the last creature on Planet Earth to be the genuine product of civilization, and of being Human!
Enjoy me while you can, appreciate your Charles!,
Because Very Soon all will be no longer Real, as the one of Frankenstein is becoming a reality.
Report Unsuitable39
knebin,
21/05/2010 02:51:10
*Please enter your comment*Report Unsuitable40
Baggy Troosers,
21/05/2010 03:39:38
re-photo
Iain Gray just out of his bed.Report Unsuitable41
Baggy Troosers,
21/05/2010 03:41:18
The real yeah1.Report Unsuitable42
Baggy Troosers,
21/05/2010 03:42:43
Its Rufus! aka The creature from the Black lagoonReport Unsuitable43
knebin,
21/05/2010 03:43:30
nice to get a real conversation going
Animal rightsReport Unsuitable44
Baggy Troosers,
21/05/2010 03:43:52
Its Grahamski ,just out of the chit hoose.
three arfs and a chortle.Report Unsuitable45
knebin,
21/05/2010 03:44:28
Thread ShmedsReport Unsuitable46
Baggy Troosers,
21/05/2010 04:26:12
Just having a bit of fun before the Nu-Nu-Labour wooly eyed brigade exit their Kennels for another day of sneering.Report Unsuitable47
Greig Arius,
21/05/2010 04:55:36
It's Alive..It's alive....It's.....aliiiiiive
Report Unsuitable48
Kronos,
21/05/2010 05:19:01
Re Picture:
Baggy Troosers realises he has mislaid his blow up doll.Report Unsuitable49
Kronos,
21/05/2010 05:23:38
Observer spots Muriel Grey on Loose Women.Report Unsuitable50
Kronos,
21/05/2010 05:29:42
Traquir switches on his TV to watch Eorpa only to discover it has been replaced by 'Today at the Olympics'.Report Unsuitable51
Handsome Scotsman,
Brechin 21/05/2010 05:48:07
Well thats me up. Too warm to sleep.
Have checked in mirror and Im still handsome thankfully.Report Unsuitable52
Billy Boy,
Sherman Oaks Californiacation 21/05/2010 05:58:53
This is a very serious subject, why does everyone seem to be taken by the picture of george Bush before his surgery. Just think, these cyantists could very well use him as the model!Report Unsuitable53
Ben Thehoose,
21/05/2010 06:50:30
As a panentheist I see no problem here, other than the new cells somehow running amuck.
Frankenstein built his un named creature to improve the world. It worked too for a while until humans so slagged the creature that it turned against its maker. Quite a serious parable really and far far from the Hollywood krappe.Report Unsuitable54
Baggy Troosers,
21/05/2010 07:28:40
Kronos heading to his computer for another day shift.Report Unsuitable55
Baggy Troosers,
21/05/2010 07:30:10
The end result of Gordon Broon and Maggie Thatcher's love tryst.Report Unsuitable56
Baggy Troosers,
21/05/2010 07:30:47
Maggie thatcher before the make-up.Report Unsuitable57
Baggy Troosers,
21/05/2010 07:31:11
Gordon Broon before the make-up.Report Unsuitable58
Baggy Troosers,
21/05/2010 07:39:29
Yeah1 looking for a friend.Report Unsuitable59
Unimpressed one,
21/05/2010 07:50:40
Another area of scientific research that the green luddites can condemn. Still one has to wonder, if this was done because it 'was possible' as opposed to 'was necessary'.Report Unsuitable60
Reaper the Whirlwind,
Dublin Fair City 21/05/2010 07:56:21
So that's how it's done! A computer and four bottles of chemicals!
God, what next? Report Unsuitable61
SassyC,
21/05/2010 07:56:54
29:
Dilios.............there will always be a need for men...a world without men would be a lesser place.Report Unsuitable62
SassyC,
21/05/2010 07:59:48
How do Scientists propose to create the one thing that makes us all unique.........the very essence of our being - our soul?Report Unsuitable63
Media for one,
21/05/2010 08:24:52
SassyC - First you need to determine if there is such a thing as a soul. I very much doubt that the scientists will be doing anything that has not already been done before, and there is every chance that you, me and everybody else are also clones.Report Unsuitable64
M78,
Tain 21/05/2010 08:26:19
Makes a change from anti S.N.P. jackanories, however Maddox is still in full song today as usual.Report Unsuitable65
SassyC,
21/05/2010 08:42:02
63:
And what is it that makes us all different.......all unique, pray tell? I do not need that the onus is on me to prove there is a soul.....
Hey, I know we are not clones though. At least not all of us. You see I advocate independence for Scotland and there are many on these threads who do not. So, your theory we are all clones is not quite factual...Report Unsuitable66
SassyC,
21/05/2010 08:43:19
65: Sorry typo - I do not consider that the onus is on me etc. (as opposed to need)Report Unsuitable67
shrek4,
21/05/2010 08:45:20
One of Jim Murphy's better ones, but is that his third home? :)Report Unsuitable68
Lianachan,
Highlands 21/05/2010 08:47:49
Making bacteria that can excrete diesel? Bacteria that can produce better medicines and at a fraction of the cost? Bring it on, I say, and the sooner the better.Report Unsuitable69
lipeshends,
21/05/2010 08:52:56
What a brainless article. What biological materials are not made of chemicals? The potential is now you dork, though the realisation may be far off. If this is the standard I sense a new career as a science writer beckoning.Report Unsuitable70
Méths,
21/05/2010 09:03:30
Mother?Report Unsuitable71
Méths,
21/05/2010 09:06:12
... and elsewhere ...
"Coalition threatens to steal SNP's thunder over alcohol pricing "
Hmm...Report Unsuitable72
Sedov,
21/05/2010 09:16:26
The SUN is slowly sinking over the Scotsman as their once proud title of a quality Scottish paper newspaper takes another knock with this awful headline and a photo of a fictitious character, Frnkenstein.
So instead of heralding this as a scientific breakthrough which will go on like many other 'controversial discoveries', to save lives and extend peoples quality of life they resort to the sensationalism of the gutter press.
Yes, I know that these discoveries are more about US corporate profit than saving lives ,but at least this example is not creating another atom bomb.Report Unsuitable73
Vigilant Watcher,
Bo'ness 21/05/2010 09:21:34
You can't play God! There IS NO God! When will commentators start to live in the real world that exists now?
As someone has already pointed out 'biological material' is made up of chemicals and just what does Human Genetic Alert mean by 'synthetic life'?
It's a 'synthetic cell' for 'GOD's sake' not life! It's taken evolution millions of years to create life and synthetic cells have a long way to go before they take over the planet!Report Unsuitable74
SassyC,
21/05/2010 09:27:20
73:
'You can't play God! There IS NO GOD'!..
Your opinion surely?
In reality - there is no absolute reality...Report Unsuitable75
Lianachan,
Highlands 21/05/2010 09:31:55
#73 God gets no more upset about folk playing Him than do James Bond, Darth Vader or any other fictional character.Report Unsuitable76
Gruntfuttock,
21/05/2010 09:40:31
What a childishly stupid title along with the predictable clichéd picture of Frankenstein's monster.
God (if he/she/it exists)save us from the humanities-educated illiterati that write such drivel.Report Unsuitable77
Sumlogic,
21/05/2010 09:57:05
How can humans 'being products of nature' do anything unnatural, we would have to somehow step out of the universe...being a product of nature, these creations seem simply another step in an evolutionary process, although many wont like that based on say religious thinking, remember the quote, "Greater things than these yea shall do" all makes perfect sense really...Report Unsuitable78
Himself,
Cambridge 21/05/2010 10:05:47
Vigilant Watcher, what an interesting fairy story about evolution. How do we get from a one cell organisim to a male and female human being. Two creatures that happen to develop at the same time and by a coincidence that takes more than faith to believe that they could both develop in such a way that they would have reproductive organs compatible to such an extent that they could reproduce either of the originals. The timing would also have to be so precise in your millions of years that if you had one without the other, the first might die before the other sex had matured, otherwise the race would die out before the first child. Then of course if like some families the first couple had all children of one sex then again the human race would not exist. This applies equally to all creatures where a male and female are required to reproduce. Maybe God only gave powers of reasoning to a few. The Bible does advise us to ask God for wisdom, perhaps you are asking in the wrong place. What has Wilmott to do with Dolly the Sheep, remember the Scottish Sun Headline "I took the Lolly but did not make Dolly" or something similar! The Scotsman also needs to quote someone who knows what they are talking about.Report Unsuitable79
Media for one,
21/05/2010 10:18:03
Science is amazing, unlike religion science offers us answers, it does not allow ancient texts written by powerful scribes with an agenda to influence modern thought. Science asks questions and without science we would all be of the belief that the Earth was flat and at the centre of the universe, we would believe that homosexuality was a sin and that people who practice it should be killed, we would essentially be nothing more than indoctrinated zombies with no authority to think for ourselves, so Science IS GOD, in my opinion that is.
Of course not all people think like that and their need for a God and an afterlife is part and parcel of who they are. I respect that, people who attend church and fall on their knees to worship do as they do because that is what makes them tick, it is what they need, it is their belief and that is that. I have been critical of believers in the past but I made a mistake in doing that and I admit it, we all have room for growth, and in that regard I respect other people's beliefs.
I personally see no problem with science creating human life, it has to go that way it is unavaoidable! If we look at the evolution of human behaviour and invention as well as medical procdures in the last 100 years, it is obvious that the next 100 years will bring us a new type of human who will look back at us and be astounded that we did not have the capacity to chose our children. They will not understand how blindness could happen, they will laugh that we looked through binoculars to zoom in as opposed to our own eyes - And mothers in the new world will look back in 150 years and wonder how the hell ancient women carried a baby in their stomach for 9 months, where is the equality in that they will argue. Yip, the career woman will just lend an egg and pick up her off-spring when it's ready. No mess no fuss, a shocking thought for us here and now, but maybe not so much for future woman.Report Unsuitable80
Ulster Protestant,
21/05/2010 10:18:04
What rubbish - this so called scientist used "bacterium" from a live goat - it is hardly creating life is it - God alone is the giver and taker of life, and man will never replicate it. All would do well to focused on the fact that it is appointed unto man once to die, and after this, the judgement. Only those united to Jesus Christ by faith alone will have everlasting life.Report Unsuitable81
Jo Public,
21/05/2010 10:26:32
This is nothing new. There have been synthetic cells in the brain of Iain Gray for some time and it shows at FMQs.Report Unsuitable82
Media for one,
21/05/2010 10:27:38
Ulster - I dont know you, but a good wind-up nonetheless. Report Unsuitable83
Lianachan,
Highlands 21/05/2010 10:33:57
#79 I've always thought the universe was wonderful enough, without seeing the need to invoke some sort of Big Sky Fairy to account for it.Report Unsuitable84
Shah Hoorsur,
21/05/2010 10:40:08
Is this really a first? Wasn't Yeah1 the product of an earlier experiment?Report Unsuitable85
Media for one,
21/05/2010 11:00:43
I suppose it is all about personal questions. When I was growing up I believed in God, in many ways I feared God because I knew that he would kill me if I didn’t behave just as he did in the bible on so many occasions. Jesus, the apparent son of God was a lot friendlier, he was cool, he was forgiving and I got so confused because all that was wrong in the world of God was now ok in the world of Jesus.
Anyway, I remember being told that god didn’t get involved in natural disaster, a far removed attitude to the days when he parted seas and turned wooden sticks to snakes, made people and even animals. The earthquake was bad, I remember many people were hurt and how it had nothing to do with god, because he really didn’t influence such things. Then I heard people praying for god to help the people, but I knew they were wasting their time because he didn’t get involved. And they were right, because no matter how hard they prayed at one disaster, another one would follow somewhere else at some other time, only for them to pray again.
I just don’t need god, I hate the thought of a god and the thought of heaven and hell repulses me. But that is my belief and it makes me happy to know that I am so liberated and free.
As one of my old teachers used to say; perhaps the bible is a trick; perhaps god has never spoken or been involved with man, only observed following creation. Maybe the bible is the work of the devil and all the people who buy into it without EVER questioning it or hearing directly from god are doomed for hell for being so easily duped. After all, when you know who you are, you know who you are, trying to prove it through robes, staffs, prayer, crosses, emblems, church, songs and readings is in a sense, perverted and un pure, a sort of desperation.
Report Unsuitable86
SassyC,
21/05/2010 11:15:50
85:
It hasn't been easy for you that is obvious. No child should have to fear God....
So many issues for us all to explore in a lifetime. Trying to make sense of it all.....
Sometimes it seems easier not to believe...not to have to think of it at all.
Once you have faith though............you realise that nothing compares. Love is all. Love conquers all. And if you read the little Prayer about the footprints in the sand then comes the realisation that you were carried after all; even if it didn't seem like it at the time. And that is why I believe and could never not believe...Report Unsuitable87
Lianachan,
Highlands 21/05/2010 11:18:43
#85 Said by Loki, in the film Dogma:
That poem, "The Walrus and the Carpenter," that's an indictment of organized religion. The walrus, with his girth and his good nature, he obviously represents either Buddha, or, or with his tusks, the Hindu elephant god, Lord Ganesha. That takes care of your Eastern religions. Now the carpenter, which is an obvious reference to Jesus Christ, who was raised a carpenter's son, he represents the Western religions. Now in the poem, what do they do? What do they do? They, they dupe all these oysters into following them and then proceed to shuck and devour the helpless creatures en masse. I don't know what that says to you, but to me it says that following these faiths based on mythological figures ensures the destruction of one's inner being. Organized religion destroys who we are by inhibiting our actions, by inhibiting our decisions out of, out of fear of some, some intangible parent figure who, who shakes a finger at us from thousands of years ago and says, and says, "Do it... do it and I'll f*ckin' sp@nk you." Report Unsuitable88
SassyC,
21/05/2010 11:22:26
87;
We are all different. Different beliefs and different values and that is okay...believing to some is the destruction of one's inner being, believing to others is the very essence of it...
wouldn't do if we were all the same, would it?Report Unsuitable89
FrankyB,
21/05/2010 11:24:31
#80
didn't you read the article? The DNA (which states who and what we are) was made in a lab from standard chemicals. The housing they injected this into was nothing more than a protein house which can easily be manufactured synthetically at a later date with yet more synthetic proteins.
There is no 'life force' in the surrounding 'jelly'.
This proves that 'life can come from nothing'. Your god was not required to 'breathe life into it'. We did it ourselves. Get the picture?
This is the manfuacture of life. And what can be manufactured can be modified. We do not need god to create life. We do not need god to dictate morals.
We can do this ourselves.
This proves that all religions are just plain stupid. All those who profess them are plain stupid. All those who follow them are plain stupid.
Well done.
Mankind 1 your omnipotent God 0.
Report Unsuitable90
Keith Mac,
Edinburgh 21/05/2010 11:43:59
And man made God in his own image.Report Unsuitable91
Patrick Stewart,
21/05/2010 11:57:09
I wondered why everyone was comparing pictures of synthetic cells to Jim Murphy et al..take it the picture was of Frankenstein's monster at some point earlier?Report Unsuitable92
Shah Hoorsur,
21/05/2010 12:59:32
#91,
Mr Frankenstein was shocked and appalled at the comparison and threatened legal action, so they binned his photie.Report Unsuitable93
Iain Mac,
21/05/2010 13:00:00
So, can the Scotsman prove the existence of this 'god' character?Report Unsuitable94
,
21/05/2010 13:02:43
Comment Removed By AdministratorReason: 95
,
21/05/2010 13:02:56
Comment Removed By AdministratorReason: 96
Lianachan,
Highlands 21/05/2010 13:17:55
#93 The Scotsman doesn't do investigative journalism, sorry. If Labour released a statement proving it, they'd print that.Report Unsuitable97
Richard Lionheart,
21/05/2010 13:35:30
What a headline!
Scientists a step closer to playing “a media proclaimed non existent being”
Does this step for mankind not fall foul of what we are told is the commonly held belief of the “Big Bang theory” where things just come into being!
Maybe this “cell” just came into being and the Scientist didn’t know what to do about it!
It is interesting that the article highlights that one of the main uses for this “cell” maybe to suck CO2 out of the atmosphere and therefore bring an end to humanity!
The fact that CO2 is not a pollutant but a requirement for our survival is still currently lost on our beloved politicians. One day reality will hit them! Hopefully before this “cell” sucks all the CO2 out of the atmosphere and kills off the plant life/crops we need to survive on.
Report Unsuitable98
Richard Lionheart,
21/05/2010 13:52:22
#79 Media for one says: - “Science is amazing, unlike religion science offers us answers, it does not allow ancient texts written by powerful scribes with an agenda to influence modern thought.....”
Sorry to disappoint you. Science offers answers but does not always offer complete answers. Science can only offer the answers as far as understanding of the matter being investigated by science has reached, and beyond that the answer(s) offered by science can change on an hourly or daily basis or even after hundreds of years.
Just ask anyone who was delayed by volcanic “ash cloud” they will tell you!
As far as the ”Ancient Texts” you refer to, Christianity refers to the Bible and it certainly does provide a full view of where mankind comes from and goes to and all the murky activity that humans will and have got up to over the millennia.
As the TV soap writers would say, it is a picture of real modern life!
Report Unsuitable99
Lianachan,
Highlands 21/05/2010 14:21:03
#98 Do not make the mistake of taking the Bible literally, or as a history book!Report Unsuitable100
Rab Sp8,
21/05/2010 14:29:05
What a lazy piece of journalism and disgraceful headline. Why does every science article in the press have to mention Frankenstein and Playing God?
How about journalists coming at these articles from a positive point of view instead of the default view that scientists are all evil? How about trying to actually understand the science and its potential before putting out a front page article?
Its a good job that scientists aren't all put off doing any more research and leaving people in the future to starve, freeze from lack of fuel, have no chemicals with which to manufacture just about everything we need to survive and live.
This work is just part of a whole field of research looking into how we can make things like chemicals for materials, fuels, drugs and a whole lot more in a sustainable way. We need this for our future.Report Unsuitable101
Méths,
21/05/2010 14:29:21
100 new species.Report Unsuitable102
Méths,
21/05/2010 14:30:08
Blast!Report Unsuitable103
Cynicus Unbound,
21/05/2010 17:08:52
Early posts above must be baffling to daytime readers.
The original pic was of Boris Karloff's iconic Frankenstein's monster.Report Unsuitable104
getinnnn,
21/05/2010 17:46:59
"This artificial material was then placed into another type of bacterium, which had its own genetic material taken out"...this other bacterium had the "life"...it could not have happened with artificial build.Report Unsuitable105
getinnnn,
21/05/2010 17:50:17
A living cell is a cell capable of "exibiting"Report Unsuitable106
Holly Golightly,
21/05/2010 18:00:27
They have taken away the picture of Jim Murphy and replaced it with some blobs.
So we are carrying on with the Labour Party theme then......Report Unsuitable107
david wayne osedach,
San Diego 21/05/2010 18:11:46
I haven't seen any successful cloning of humans yet.Report Unsuitable108
dilios de brus,
mr mojo risin 21/05/2010 18:34:39
Sassy C #'s 61 and 62, yes, that's the point I was originally making; but I find when I write in a manner that is not completely and fundamentally explanatory, I am intrigued to see the remarks; it usually has an ambiguous effect on those reading it.
I was taught this during analysis seminars; the questions you ask are so oblique that the analysand 'feels' compelled to fill in the blnks. It can be equated to viewing an 'impressionist' painting where the visual system is asked to fill in the blanks that the painter only left as an 'impression'.
This minimalistic writing procedure is in itself an artform because when taking a language like English, with all its presuppositions and pretexts, the bland and one dimensional text then becomes multi-dimensional as towards meaning and context.
I sometimes mispell words, and even leave out the con-joining words in sentences to see the 'effect' it has; somewhat similar to what Blake did in his poetry, and interestingly enough exactly how Cubism operates too.
Jim Morrison did a simialr thing with his double meaning lyrics; he was a hell of a shocker with his work. He once sang 'The End', at the Los Angeles 'Whisky a go-go niteclub about Freud's Oedipus complex, and the owners threw the band out and banned them for life. The crownd wen mad, they took the lyrics literally, and were forced to feel immoral regressions of their own complex's; the man was a genius.
It's an amazing thing to watch.Report Unsuitable109
dilios de brus,
A family with a mum. 21/05/2010 18:41:00
But to qualify my own self, i am a guy that thinks nothing can, (and shouldn't even be tried to), take the place of real women and real men; a family is the most important part of God's plan for us all.
Well, that's what i think anyway.
Report Unsuitable110
Nellie,
Liverpool 21/05/2010 19:45:14
80 Ulster Protestant said, "Only those united to Jesus Christ by faith alone will have everlasting life."
Well, that's me bu99ered - I'm a Buddhist.Report Unsuitable111
RDL,
21/05/2010 20:28:17
79-Media for one,
Quite thought provoking assertions you make. Science and religion are, it seems, incompatible. Science is king and man is the Architect of all great things created in science, sitting at the pinnacle of the evolutionary pyramid. Your view of the future is a little shaky and Utopian like happy ending science fiction movies. Scientific advancements do not always bring such happy myopic endings. i.e. Oppenheimer's development of the a- bomb, thalidomide etc . The reality of the past belies this dream, knowing the destructive and greed driven disposition of mans past and present, the future will always be uncertain . Certain natural events will always be beyond mans control i.e. volcanoes and earthquakes, and I dare say comet strikes , which could ultimately destroy us as surely as it wiped out the dinosaurs. We don’t control planet, the planet controls us as long as it allows us the privilege to inhabit it.This is probably the Machiavellian view of man-which isn't good.
Report Unsuitable112
SassyC,
21/05/2010 21:30:49
108: Dilios - I enjoyed reading your post. Often my sentences are not completely and fundamentally explanatory and I think I do that because I try to get people to think about things in an open way. By keeping it concise and vaguely worded there is more chance of that happening than if I were to put my own particular slant on it. It's a bit like throwing a bone and then seeing what the reaction is....and I am genuinely interested in what that is.
I particularly liked the part about Jim Morrison....that story made me laugh! One can imagine a club called Whisky A Go Go and the effect of that song on everybody.I would have loved to have been there watching that situation unfold! I would have laughed and laughed...
I too like to shock. Most of the time I don't shock... but once in a while the fun side of me likes to take people by surprise and then I sit back and laugh myself silly at the outcome! Such is life...wouldn't do if we all too predictable....and the bonus is when you take people by surprise it always let's them see you in a new light - which can be no bad thing!!Report Unsuitable113
Holly Golightly,
21/05/2010 21:50:57
111 Science is no more a God than God is. Science is a method of extracting information, how you put that to use is and always will be an ethical and moral consideration. The difference between science and religion is that science is based on empirical evidence, whereas religion is based on a belief system. Those who swap one belief system - religion - for another belief system, that science is of itself an answer to human problems are not really getting it.
Science is a tool, which can be used for good or for bad. In that way it can be seen as similar to religion. Report Unsuitable114
Kronos,
21/05/2010 22:49:23
113
Well said Observer.
At last, final confirmation that you know everything about everything.Report Unsuitable115
Thomas46,
Tyneside 21/05/2010 22:52:53
I don't think that the scientists would make the claims that this headline does. What they did was put a copy of a genome inside of an existing live cell. They gave life to nothing but maybe it's a breakthrough if the cell survived with a chemical soup in place of it's own genome. Report Unsuitable
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