Post by Paddy by Grace on Dec 24, 2010 6:11:40 GMT -7
Rom 9:1 I am speaking the truth — as one who belongs to the Messiah, I do not lie; and also bearing witness is my conscience, governed by the Ruach HaKodesh:
Rom 9:2 my grief is so great, the pain in my heart so constant,
Rom 9:3 that I could wish myself actually under God's curse and separated from the Messiah, if it would help my brothers, my own flesh and blood,
Rom 9:4 the people of Isra'el! They were made God's children, the Sh'khinah has been with them, the covenants are theirs, likewise the giving of the Torah, the Temple service and the promises;
Rom 9:5 the Patriarchs are theirs; and from them, as far as his physical descent is concerned, came the Messiah, who is over all. Praised be Adonai for ever! Amen.
Rom 9:6 But the present condition of Isra'el does not mean that the Word of God has failed. For not everyone from Isra'el is truly part of Isra'el;
Rom 9:7 indeed, not all the descendants are seed of Avraham; rather, "What is to be called your 'seed' will be in Yitz'chak."
Rom 9:8 In other words, it is not the physical children who are children of God, but the children the promise refers to who are considered seed.
Rom 9:9 For this is what the promise said: "At the time set, I will come; and Sarah will have a son."
We have all read these verses in Romans many times, and there is alot going on here. It is here we see the division of the Shemites in verse 7. We are told that Christians would become a 'part of Yahweh's chosen, (and NOT a replacement thereof) in verse's 6 - 8. Christians became 'grafted' in as a part of God's children and heirs to the Sh'khinah, covenants, promises and the Torah through Yeshua HaMashiach not so much by His birth, but by His death... sacrifice for the remission of OUR sin.
Yeshua is the highest fulfillment of Passover. HE is the sacrificial Passover Ram for all, that those of us who are born OUTSIDE of the genealogical line of Abraham (gentiles), born OUTSIDE the natural family of Israel, we are grafted into, joined with, the nation of people who ARE of the line of Abraham when we accept Christ. But……that is from a Spiritual aspect. And, to God, the TRUE members of HIS ideal Israel are all those who trust Him. And, trusting Him means accepting Yeshua as Messiah.
Verses 7 & 8 are so terribly important to grasp because here is defined just WHO the “seed of Abraham” (meaning all those for who the promises made to Abraham were intended) are; and just as important, who the seed of Abraham are NOT! And, we find out that the physical descendants of Abraham are not ALL to be considered the “seed”, just those who come through the line of Isaac. Who would have thought that in our modern day this definition would be so terribly important to define whom God’s people ON A PHYSICAL level are. Because Islam says that it was Isaac’s BROTHER Ishmael who would be the line of Abraham’s seed. This shows you just how the most basic premise of Islam is utter deceit. And, I remind you, that the founder of Islam wasn’t even born until 5 centuries after these words of Paul were spoken; so Paul wasn’t battling theologies with the Islamic world because it didn’t even exist. Further, in verse 8, we see that from a spiritual aspect not all of the legitimate physical seed (the descendants of Isaac) would be counted as “seed” either.
Rom 2:23 You who take such pride in Torah, do you, by disobeying the Torah, dishonor God? —
Rom 2:24 as it says in the Tanakh, "For it is because of you that God's name is blasphemed by the Goyim."
Rom 2:25 For circumcision is indeed of value if you do what Torah says. But if you are a transgressor of Torah, your circumcision has become uncircumcision!
Rom 2:26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the Torah, won't his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?
Rom 2:27 Indeed, the man who is physically uncircumcised but obeys the Torah will stand as a judgment on you who have had a b'rit-milah and have Torah written out but violate it!
Rom 2:28 For the real Jew is not merely Jewish outwardly: true circumcision is not only external and physical.
Rom 2:29 On the contrary, the real Jew is one inwardly; and true circumcision is of the heart, spiritual not literal; so that his praise comes not from other people but from God. (not the end of this thought)
Rom 3:1 Then what advantage has the Jew? What is the value of being circumcised?
Rom 3:2 Much in every way! In the first place, the Jews were entrusted with the very words of God.
Rom 3:3 If some of them were unfaithful, so what? Does their faithlessness cancel God's faithfulness?
Rom 3:4 Heaven forbid! God would be true even if everyone were a liar! — as the Tanakh says, "so that you, God, may be proved right in your words and win the verdict when you are put on trial."
We, as Christians, have all felt the condemnation of sin in our lives from Yah when we did something wrong, have we all not felt the blessings as well when we walk in His word?
Notice the key here: God sees the true Israel….which is the heavenly ideal of Israel….. as a Spiritual entity. Therefore, with the advent of Christ, God sees His Israel as a congregation of Jewish and Gentile believers. Most certainly He sees and recognizes the physical nation of Israel (the descendants of Isaac and Jacob), the people born as natural Israelites, as Israel….PHYSICAL Israel. national Israel. But, that is apart and separate from the “Israel of God” which is an everlasting spiritual entity.
Notice how Paul makes sure that we understand that the PHYSICAL differences AND purposes God created for His chosen people, Israel, remain intact. And, then remain intact AFTER Yeshua has come and gone. Israel, physical Israel, remains central to God’s purpose, and remains set apart and valuable to Him.
So, here in these last few verses of Romans 2 and the first few verses of Romans 3, we get this all import God principle, that tends to really mess with our minds: as pertains to each of God’s principles and commands there is an earthly, physical, fleshly level on the one hand, and there is a corresponding heavenly, spiritual level on the other. This is what I call a “duality”…. or, the Reality of Duality (dual, as in two); in this case, there are two “levels” of Israel: physical and spiritual. Both are real, and exist simultaneously, and are organically connected; however, not everyone who is part of physical Israel will belong to spiritual Israel, and not everyone who is part of spiritual Israel will be physical Israelites. Just as with Passover there is the earthly ritual and meaning that Moses was instructed to perform, and then there is its fullest, spiritual aspect that was fulfilled with the death of Jesus.
The physical aspect of Israel consists of the earthly nation of Israel and its people; people that we today refer to as Jews. Spiritual Israel consists of all those, Jew and gentile, who are faithful to God…..that is, those who have accepted God’s Messiah, Jesus Christ.
Does this come together for you? I hope so. I realize this can be a little difficult to fully grasp. Now, with that as a background, allow me to address one other issue that, because of the point in mankind’s history we find ourselves, it has become critical for believers to grasp: the church consist of all believers, gentile and Hebrew. There are not Jewish believers as apart from gentile believers; to God, a believer is a believer is a believer. It doesn’t matter whether Jewish believers go to a gentile church or a Messianic Jewish Synagogue; and it doesn’t matter whether a GENTILE attends a Messianic Jewish Synagogue (as many do) or a typical gentile church. …. those are just manmade divisions and organizations.
The thing is this: over the centuries, the meaning of the term “Church” has changed. Remember, Church is simply the chosen English rendering of the Greek word “ekklesia”, which is what the NT often uses when referring to believers. Sadly, over time, the term Church has lost its true meaning. The Church is people. When the Bible refers to Church, ekklesia, it is referring ONLY to people, to human beings, who have submitted to Messiah Yeshua. The Church has nothing to do with buildings and places and activities and man-ordained denominational organizations. It is a terrible misuse of the term “church” when we refer to the place where we go to worship as “Church”. It is a terrible misuse of the term “church” to call what many do on Sundays as “doing Church”. The Church is Believers. Period. You are the church. I am the church. A gentile who believes in Christ is the church, and an Israelite…or as we think of it today, a Jew…. who believes in Christ is the church. Unfortunately our misuse of the term church has led to this way of thinking that means that Jews, Israelites, Hebrews, who trust Yeshua are in a different class or category than gentiles who trust Yeshua. Nothing could be further from the truth. God, through Moses in Exodus, and through Paul in Romans, and through Christ in the Gospels, and through several of the prophets, has tried with great effort to get this into our brains.
Does all this really make a difference to us? You bet it does. Because this shows just how connected we are to Israel in every imaginable way. It explains how the Body of Believers, the Church, is to see itself; that our true identity is as part of Spiritual Israel. Not as a “new” Israel. Not as a replacement of Israel. Rather, Believers compose the Spiritual ideal that represents all that God envisioned for a group of people set apart for Him….Israel.
I thank and Praise Yahweh for the Birth and Death of His only Begotten Son, Yeshua HaMashiach, who became the final Passover sacrifice for all 'Israel'.
"Suddenly, along with the angel was a vast army from heaven praising God: In the highest heaven, glory to God! And on earth, peace among people of good will!"
"On the eighth day, when it was time for his b'rit-milah, he was given the name Yeshua, which is what the angel had called him before his conception."
Amein and Amein!
Rom 9:2 my grief is so great, the pain in my heart so constant,
Rom 9:3 that I could wish myself actually under God's curse and separated from the Messiah, if it would help my brothers, my own flesh and blood,
Rom 9:4 the people of Isra'el! They were made God's children, the Sh'khinah has been with them, the covenants are theirs, likewise the giving of the Torah, the Temple service and the promises;
Rom 9:5 the Patriarchs are theirs; and from them, as far as his physical descent is concerned, came the Messiah, who is over all. Praised be Adonai for ever! Amen.
Rom 9:6 But the present condition of Isra'el does not mean that the Word of God has failed. For not everyone from Isra'el is truly part of Isra'el;
Rom 9:7 indeed, not all the descendants are seed of Avraham; rather, "What is to be called your 'seed' will be in Yitz'chak."
Rom 9:8 In other words, it is not the physical children who are children of God, but the children the promise refers to who are considered seed.
Rom 9:9 For this is what the promise said: "At the time set, I will come; and Sarah will have a son."
We have all read these verses in Romans many times, and there is alot going on here. It is here we see the division of the Shemites in verse 7. We are told that Christians would become a 'part of Yahweh's chosen, (and NOT a replacement thereof) in verse's 6 - 8. Christians became 'grafted' in as a part of God's children and heirs to the Sh'khinah, covenants, promises and the Torah through Yeshua HaMashiach not so much by His birth, but by His death... sacrifice for the remission of OUR sin.
Yeshua is the highest fulfillment of Passover. HE is the sacrificial Passover Ram for all, that those of us who are born OUTSIDE of the genealogical line of Abraham (gentiles), born OUTSIDE the natural family of Israel, we are grafted into, joined with, the nation of people who ARE of the line of Abraham when we accept Christ. But……that is from a Spiritual aspect. And, to God, the TRUE members of HIS ideal Israel are all those who trust Him. And, trusting Him means accepting Yeshua as Messiah.
Verses 7 & 8 are so terribly important to grasp because here is defined just WHO the “seed of Abraham” (meaning all those for who the promises made to Abraham were intended) are; and just as important, who the seed of Abraham are NOT! And, we find out that the physical descendants of Abraham are not ALL to be considered the “seed”, just those who come through the line of Isaac. Who would have thought that in our modern day this definition would be so terribly important to define whom God’s people ON A PHYSICAL level are. Because Islam says that it was Isaac’s BROTHER Ishmael who would be the line of Abraham’s seed. This shows you just how the most basic premise of Islam is utter deceit. And, I remind you, that the founder of Islam wasn’t even born until 5 centuries after these words of Paul were spoken; so Paul wasn’t battling theologies with the Islamic world because it didn’t even exist. Further, in verse 8, we see that from a spiritual aspect not all of the legitimate physical seed (the descendants of Isaac) would be counted as “seed” either.
Rom 2:23 You who take such pride in Torah, do you, by disobeying the Torah, dishonor God? —
Rom 2:24 as it says in the Tanakh, "For it is because of you that God's name is blasphemed by the Goyim."
Rom 2:25 For circumcision is indeed of value if you do what Torah says. But if you are a transgressor of Torah, your circumcision has become uncircumcision!
Rom 2:26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the Torah, won't his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?
Rom 2:27 Indeed, the man who is physically uncircumcised but obeys the Torah will stand as a judgment on you who have had a b'rit-milah and have Torah written out but violate it!
Rom 2:28 For the real Jew is not merely Jewish outwardly: true circumcision is not only external and physical.
Rom 2:29 On the contrary, the real Jew is one inwardly; and true circumcision is of the heart, spiritual not literal; so that his praise comes not from other people but from God. (not the end of this thought)
Rom 3:1 Then what advantage has the Jew? What is the value of being circumcised?
Rom 3:2 Much in every way! In the first place, the Jews were entrusted with the very words of God.
Rom 3:3 If some of them were unfaithful, so what? Does their faithlessness cancel God's faithfulness?
Rom 3:4 Heaven forbid! God would be true even if everyone were a liar! — as the Tanakh says, "so that you, God, may be proved right in your words and win the verdict when you are put on trial."
We, as Christians, have all felt the condemnation of sin in our lives from Yah when we did something wrong, have we all not felt the blessings as well when we walk in His word?
Notice the key here: God sees the true Israel….which is the heavenly ideal of Israel….. as a Spiritual entity. Therefore, with the advent of Christ, God sees His Israel as a congregation of Jewish and Gentile believers. Most certainly He sees and recognizes the physical nation of Israel (the descendants of Isaac and Jacob), the people born as natural Israelites, as Israel….PHYSICAL Israel. national Israel. But, that is apart and separate from the “Israel of God” which is an everlasting spiritual entity.
Notice how Paul makes sure that we understand that the PHYSICAL differences AND purposes God created for His chosen people, Israel, remain intact. And, then remain intact AFTER Yeshua has come and gone. Israel, physical Israel, remains central to God’s purpose, and remains set apart and valuable to Him.
So, here in these last few verses of Romans 2 and the first few verses of Romans 3, we get this all import God principle, that tends to really mess with our minds: as pertains to each of God’s principles and commands there is an earthly, physical, fleshly level on the one hand, and there is a corresponding heavenly, spiritual level on the other. This is what I call a “duality”…. or, the Reality of Duality (dual, as in two); in this case, there are two “levels” of Israel: physical and spiritual. Both are real, and exist simultaneously, and are organically connected; however, not everyone who is part of physical Israel will belong to spiritual Israel, and not everyone who is part of spiritual Israel will be physical Israelites. Just as with Passover there is the earthly ritual and meaning that Moses was instructed to perform, and then there is its fullest, spiritual aspect that was fulfilled with the death of Jesus.
The physical aspect of Israel consists of the earthly nation of Israel and its people; people that we today refer to as Jews. Spiritual Israel consists of all those, Jew and gentile, who are faithful to God…..that is, those who have accepted God’s Messiah, Jesus Christ.
Does this come together for you? I hope so. I realize this can be a little difficult to fully grasp. Now, with that as a background, allow me to address one other issue that, because of the point in mankind’s history we find ourselves, it has become critical for believers to grasp: the church consist of all believers, gentile and Hebrew. There are not Jewish believers as apart from gentile believers; to God, a believer is a believer is a believer. It doesn’t matter whether Jewish believers go to a gentile church or a Messianic Jewish Synagogue; and it doesn’t matter whether a GENTILE attends a Messianic Jewish Synagogue (as many do) or a typical gentile church. …. those are just manmade divisions and organizations.
The thing is this: over the centuries, the meaning of the term “Church” has changed. Remember, Church is simply the chosen English rendering of the Greek word “ekklesia”, which is what the NT often uses when referring to believers. Sadly, over time, the term Church has lost its true meaning. The Church is people. When the Bible refers to Church, ekklesia, it is referring ONLY to people, to human beings, who have submitted to Messiah Yeshua. The Church has nothing to do with buildings and places and activities and man-ordained denominational organizations. It is a terrible misuse of the term “church” when we refer to the place where we go to worship as “Church”. It is a terrible misuse of the term “church” to call what many do on Sundays as “doing Church”. The Church is Believers. Period. You are the church. I am the church. A gentile who believes in Christ is the church, and an Israelite…or as we think of it today, a Jew…. who believes in Christ is the church. Unfortunately our misuse of the term church has led to this way of thinking that means that Jews, Israelites, Hebrews, who trust Yeshua are in a different class or category than gentiles who trust Yeshua. Nothing could be further from the truth. God, through Moses in Exodus, and through Paul in Romans, and through Christ in the Gospels, and through several of the prophets, has tried with great effort to get this into our brains.
Does all this really make a difference to us? You bet it does. Because this shows just how connected we are to Israel in every imaginable way. It explains how the Body of Believers, the Church, is to see itself; that our true identity is as part of Spiritual Israel. Not as a “new” Israel. Not as a replacement of Israel. Rather, Believers compose the Spiritual ideal that represents all that God envisioned for a group of people set apart for Him….Israel.
I thank and Praise Yahweh for the Birth and Death of His only Begotten Son, Yeshua HaMashiach, who became the final Passover sacrifice for all 'Israel'.
"Suddenly, along with the angel was a vast army from heaven praising God: In the highest heaven, glory to God! And on earth, peace among people of good will!"
"On the eighth day, when it was time for his b'rit-milah, he was given the name Yeshua, which is what the angel had called him before his conception."
Amein and Amein!