Post by Paddy by Grace on Mar 23, 2009 21:57:11 GMT -7
What is God saying to you?...The 1st & the Last centuries....
What is God saying to you?...Not what is any man telling you that God is saying to you; but rather: What is YHVH Elohim/God Himself actually speaking to you today?
If one listens today what you'll notice is that you will sooner or later hear Christian and Messianic Leadership everywhere giving completely opposing opinions and teachings on virtually EVERY single subject there is! This increasingly is happening, even from many in Leadership who are well meaning. People today will go to one seminar and pay their money to hear one thing; and then later pay to go to another seminar to hear exactly the opposite thing taught!...But since their ears were ticked both times, they will keep on going and going. Now there's always been some debate of both sides of certain subjects, such as on dogmatic disputable matters as outlined in Romans 14; or like we're all familiar with, for but one example, on the debate of Grace verses Law -(even though there actually is NO Grace "VERSES" Law debate in Scripture, as both groups extreme stances on that issue are in error - as God's word is not against Itself - but that is a subject for a different time). As times wax worse and worse, while we would hope to be seeing a more pure proclaiming of the Gospel/Good-News, instead what we are seeing are the words and teachings of men as a pendulum swinging in an ever increasing and widening arc that is in variance from God's Word The Bible.
There is a famine in the land today of hearing YAH's Word....
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it. - Amos 8:11-12
Having said that - it is vital that you hear directly from YHVH Elohim in Yeshua Messiah speaking to you! That you draw close to Him and get into His Word - and not lean nor depend on your own understanding, nor on the voice of another - no matter how often noted or well respected that person may seem to be!
Considering all the above; following is a little attempt to put the present situation(s) we as Believers are facing today in this (last) generation, into a context of what some of the Believers in the 1st century AD in Israel might have also have had discussions about when they were approaching the time of the attack on Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. See if you can see in this make-believe discussion below, what is being said and taught today. - And since we already know what the outcome was during the 1st Century, perhaps we can glean something for our day....
First, just a little background: About one million Jewish people died in Jerusalem at that time. Yet those who heeded the Words of Yeshua Messiah to flee the city escaped and lived on, some later returned to Jerusalem, and they also proclaimed the Gospel everywhere they went. Also bear in mind that the 1st century Believers were far far more dedicated in their walk than what we see from the visible Body of Believers today. Also note:
The Disciples asked Yeshua/Jesus Messiah TWO questions, concerning both the destruction of the Temple AND of the end of the world....
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? -Matthew 24:1-3
...And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. -Luke 21:20-22
...But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. -Matthew 24:20-22
~~~
A possible conversation that may have taken place in early 70 AD in Jerusalem?...
So Shlomo: What do you think of the reports that the Roman armies are on the way here to Jerusalem?
Well Chaim: I think that is just one more example of wars and rumors of wars. The Romans are always up to something, and yet we're still here and all things continue as they always have, right? - So I don't really care.
But haven't you been paying attention to what the Disciples are saying, that the end of the generation of 40 years from when Messiah spoke is here?
Sure I've heard it Chaim, who hasn't. But there are some saying: What is a generation? - Is it 40 years as the Children of Israel were in the wilderness; or is it 70 or 80 years, as are the years of a man's life. I've heard some saying that too lately, and telling us not to worry, for they say those things can't happen for another 30 or 40 years.
Well I don't know about the both of you Shlomo and Chaim; but I had a dream earlier this week and I saw Jerusalem being destroyed, people dying, and the Temple on fire!
Well Rivcha; I too had a dream like that a few months back, but in the dream I had I was very old when those things happened. So I'm starting to believe those who say that these things will eventually happen, but they will not happen for many many years from now.
Well I don't know about the rest of you, but I, Rivcha, am one girl who is going to pay attention! Haven't you heard about the Disciples saying that the time to flee Jerusalem is at the door?
Rivcha, that is fine for you, but I plan on just staying here and surrendering to the Romans when the Romans come. We are supposed to be peace makers, right? Besides, I don't believe that God wants us to suffer, He'll protect us and no harm will come to us. And aren't you just wanting to save your life if you flee? Maybe that is a warning that you'll loose your life if this is the wrong time? What if this isn't the time that Messiah warned us about that is here?
Shlomo, that makes no sense at all! Instead: Aren't you just wanting to save your life if you stay? You think by my fleeing all, and leaving behind my house, possessions, and those of my family and friends who won't go - that I'm trying to save my way of life? More like I'm throwing my life here away; and yet it is you who are hanging on to the life you have here by staying!
Well...guys, some of you are misapplying Scripture. Now I've also heard of some who say they will stay and fight*, and will not flee. And while I believe that Torah says we are to defend the innocent, it also says we are to go where YAH directs us. So then when I leave, as that is what I feel led to do, if they then come at me in the mountains - like the Maccabee's did from the hills - I'll fight them! - But I plan on leaving with the Disciples when they flee the city.
Amen Chaim! Like the Children of Israel of old followed YAH in The Pillar of Fire by night and The Cloud by day - so we too should go when and where YHVH leads us to go, And, yes: To be willing to fight, but only when and where He tells us to fight....And yet: To halt when He tells us to halt. Like the time when the Children of Israel of old were told to go fight the enemy; but they didn't go. Then later they changed their mind and they decided on their own to go to battle without Moses or the Ark, and so they perished. It is important that we hear from YHVH Elohim in Yeshua Messiah on these matters, and not go by formula or by what our own understanding seems to be telling us - and that we pray for Wisdom from Above and Discernment from Ruach HaKodesh/The-Holy-Spirit in all these things! - I too plan on leaving the city with the Disciples when the Roman's come!
SUDDENLY THE DOOR BREAKS OPEN AND ANOTHER FRIEND COMES IN WITH ALARMING NEWS!: Brethren! The Roman armies have been seen and they are right now approaching the Jerusalem walls from the West and from the East!!
*(NOTE: History shows us that later in 135 AD the Messianic Jewish Believers did at first fight against Rome when they, Rome, once again attacked Israel....But they only fought up until Rabbi Akiva declared Shimon ben Kosiba to be (a false-)messiah; at that time the Messianics stopped and refused to fight any longer under the leadership of a false-messiah.)
~~~
Why did I write all this? Because boy oh boy! are there ever a bunch of conflicting things being said out there today: Go, stay; fight, don't-fight; store food, wait for manna; the time is now; the time is in 20 years!...and on and on and on! - and most all of it conflicting and in contradiction!
The Disciples asked Yeshua/Jesus Messiah two questions, those questions were both related in the terms of their fulfillment. I've tried to put the 1st question in an illustration from the 1st Century. And I believe the 2nd question the Disciples asked applies to us here and now. But ONLY YHVH knows for sure on these things!...
So then: Let us then as Elijah heard, outselves pray to hear and listen for the Still Small Voice of YHVH speaking to us His Will. Let us go by the Word of God the Bible; and not be led astray by formulas and dogmas and teachings of men that contradict God's Word any longer! - Let us as a free-will offering come now quickly into the Presence of YHVH and sit at the Feet of Yeshua/Jesus Messiah and learn of Him.
..ahead of the storm!
In Yeshua Messiah's Name;
Amen.
Prayerfully read the short book of the Bible Zephaniah as you feel led.
Thought For The Day:
To Some Of You:
If one comes to you from the Gentile Churches in the Name of Jesus Christ, The Name in which you yourself first came to know Yeshua Messiah Who is your Lover and Friend, that one you reject....
While if another comes to you in the name of the rabbis, who don't Believe that Yeshua is The Messiah and some even violently rejecting Him, him and their words you will receive!
...And yet you think in yourselves that YHVH is pleased with this?!
~~~
Woe unto those who put Judaism 1st, and Messiah and The Word second! Biblical-Judaism is a gift from our Lover, even as a beautiful garment. But it is NOT an idol to be worshipped!
REMEMBER: Just because it's Jewish...doesn't necessarily make it right!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We as members of the Body of Messiah need to love and cherish ALL of God's Holy Word The Bible! [O.T.]: The Torah as strands of gold that glue our broken clay-vessel back together, and that are woven into the very fabric of the universe. The Ketuvim as music that flows from the Tabernacle of David that had fallen and then been lifted-up; The Netuvim as the resounding of the sound of the Shofar from Heaven that both cuts and heals; Brit HaChadashah [N.T.]: as the Shamash that lit the Menorah of the universe and sheds Light on all men. And then let Ruach HaKodesh [The Holy Spirit] of YHVH Elohim/God lead & constrain & restrain us by His Word in the way we should go. Only then will we be able to discern the words of all men, - whether they are words that are as the moon which reflect the Light of the Word of YHVH Elohim and give Him glory, - or are words that are empty and dry as a river-bed in a drought.
What is God saying to you?...Not what is any man telling you that God is saying to you; but rather: What is YHVH Elohim/God Himself actually speaking to you today?
If one listens today what you'll notice is that you will sooner or later hear Christian and Messianic Leadership everywhere giving completely opposing opinions and teachings on virtually EVERY single subject there is! This increasingly is happening, even from many in Leadership who are well meaning. People today will go to one seminar and pay their money to hear one thing; and then later pay to go to another seminar to hear exactly the opposite thing taught!...But since their ears were ticked both times, they will keep on going and going. Now there's always been some debate of both sides of certain subjects, such as on dogmatic disputable matters as outlined in Romans 14; or like we're all familiar with, for but one example, on the debate of Grace verses Law -(even though there actually is NO Grace "VERSES" Law debate in Scripture, as both groups extreme stances on that issue are in error - as God's word is not against Itself - but that is a subject for a different time). As times wax worse and worse, while we would hope to be seeing a more pure proclaiming of the Gospel/Good-News, instead what we are seeing are the words and teachings of men as a pendulum swinging in an ever increasing and widening arc that is in variance from God's Word The Bible.
There is a famine in the land today of hearing YAH's Word....
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it. - Amos 8:11-12
Having said that - it is vital that you hear directly from YHVH Elohim in Yeshua Messiah speaking to you! That you draw close to Him and get into His Word - and not lean nor depend on your own understanding, nor on the voice of another - no matter how often noted or well respected that person may seem to be!
Considering all the above; following is a little attempt to put the present situation(s) we as Believers are facing today in this (last) generation, into a context of what some of the Believers in the 1st century AD in Israel might have also have had discussions about when they were approaching the time of the attack on Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. See if you can see in this make-believe discussion below, what is being said and taught today. - And since we already know what the outcome was during the 1st Century, perhaps we can glean something for our day....
First, just a little background: About one million Jewish people died in Jerusalem at that time. Yet those who heeded the Words of Yeshua Messiah to flee the city escaped and lived on, some later returned to Jerusalem, and they also proclaimed the Gospel everywhere they went. Also bear in mind that the 1st century Believers were far far more dedicated in their walk than what we see from the visible Body of Believers today. Also note:
The Disciples asked Yeshua/Jesus Messiah TWO questions, concerning both the destruction of the Temple AND of the end of the world....
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? -Matthew 24:1-3
...And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. -Luke 21:20-22
...But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. -Matthew 24:20-22
~~~
A possible conversation that may have taken place in early 70 AD in Jerusalem?...
So Shlomo: What do you think of the reports that the Roman armies are on the way here to Jerusalem?
Well Chaim: I think that is just one more example of wars and rumors of wars. The Romans are always up to something, and yet we're still here and all things continue as they always have, right? - So I don't really care.
But haven't you been paying attention to what the Disciples are saying, that the end of the generation of 40 years from when Messiah spoke is here?
Sure I've heard it Chaim, who hasn't. But there are some saying: What is a generation? - Is it 40 years as the Children of Israel were in the wilderness; or is it 70 or 80 years, as are the years of a man's life. I've heard some saying that too lately, and telling us not to worry, for they say those things can't happen for another 30 or 40 years.
Well I don't know about the both of you Shlomo and Chaim; but I had a dream earlier this week and I saw Jerusalem being destroyed, people dying, and the Temple on fire!
Well Rivcha; I too had a dream like that a few months back, but in the dream I had I was very old when those things happened. So I'm starting to believe those who say that these things will eventually happen, but they will not happen for many many years from now.
Well I don't know about the rest of you, but I, Rivcha, am one girl who is going to pay attention! Haven't you heard about the Disciples saying that the time to flee Jerusalem is at the door?
Rivcha, that is fine for you, but I plan on just staying here and surrendering to the Romans when the Romans come. We are supposed to be peace makers, right? Besides, I don't believe that God wants us to suffer, He'll protect us and no harm will come to us. And aren't you just wanting to save your life if you flee? Maybe that is a warning that you'll loose your life if this is the wrong time? What if this isn't the time that Messiah warned us about that is here?
Shlomo, that makes no sense at all! Instead: Aren't you just wanting to save your life if you stay? You think by my fleeing all, and leaving behind my house, possessions, and those of my family and friends who won't go - that I'm trying to save my way of life? More like I'm throwing my life here away; and yet it is you who are hanging on to the life you have here by staying!
Well...guys, some of you are misapplying Scripture. Now I've also heard of some who say they will stay and fight*, and will not flee. And while I believe that Torah says we are to defend the innocent, it also says we are to go where YAH directs us. So then when I leave, as that is what I feel led to do, if they then come at me in the mountains - like the Maccabee's did from the hills - I'll fight them! - But I plan on leaving with the Disciples when they flee the city.
Amen Chaim! Like the Children of Israel of old followed YAH in The Pillar of Fire by night and The Cloud by day - so we too should go when and where YHVH leads us to go, And, yes: To be willing to fight, but only when and where He tells us to fight....And yet: To halt when He tells us to halt. Like the time when the Children of Israel of old were told to go fight the enemy; but they didn't go. Then later they changed their mind and they decided on their own to go to battle without Moses or the Ark, and so they perished. It is important that we hear from YHVH Elohim in Yeshua Messiah on these matters, and not go by formula or by what our own understanding seems to be telling us - and that we pray for Wisdom from Above and Discernment from Ruach HaKodesh/The-Holy-Spirit in all these things! - I too plan on leaving the city with the Disciples when the Roman's come!
SUDDENLY THE DOOR BREAKS OPEN AND ANOTHER FRIEND COMES IN WITH ALARMING NEWS!: Brethren! The Roman armies have been seen and they are right now approaching the Jerusalem walls from the West and from the East!!
*(NOTE: History shows us that later in 135 AD the Messianic Jewish Believers did at first fight against Rome when they, Rome, once again attacked Israel....But they only fought up until Rabbi Akiva declared Shimon ben Kosiba to be (a false-)messiah; at that time the Messianics stopped and refused to fight any longer under the leadership of a false-messiah.)
~~~
Why did I write all this? Because boy oh boy! are there ever a bunch of conflicting things being said out there today: Go, stay; fight, don't-fight; store food, wait for manna; the time is now; the time is in 20 years!...and on and on and on! - and most all of it conflicting and in contradiction!
The Disciples asked Yeshua/Jesus Messiah two questions, those questions were both related in the terms of their fulfillment. I've tried to put the 1st question in an illustration from the 1st Century. And I believe the 2nd question the Disciples asked applies to us here and now. But ONLY YHVH knows for sure on these things!...
So then: Let us then as Elijah heard, outselves pray to hear and listen for the Still Small Voice of YHVH speaking to us His Will. Let us go by the Word of God the Bible; and not be led astray by formulas and dogmas and teachings of men that contradict God's Word any longer! - Let us as a free-will offering come now quickly into the Presence of YHVH and sit at the Feet of Yeshua/Jesus Messiah and learn of Him.
..ahead of the storm!
In Yeshua Messiah's Name;
Amen.
Prayerfully read the short book of the Bible Zephaniah as you feel led.
Thought For The Day:
To Some Of You:
If one comes to you from the Gentile Churches in the Name of Jesus Christ, The Name in which you yourself first came to know Yeshua Messiah Who is your Lover and Friend, that one you reject....
While if another comes to you in the name of the rabbis, who don't Believe that Yeshua is The Messiah and some even violently rejecting Him, him and their words you will receive!
...And yet you think in yourselves that YHVH is pleased with this?!
~~~
Woe unto those who put Judaism 1st, and Messiah and The Word second! Biblical-Judaism is a gift from our Lover, even as a beautiful garment. But it is NOT an idol to be worshipped!
REMEMBER: Just because it's Jewish...doesn't necessarily make it right!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We as members of the Body of Messiah need to love and cherish ALL of God's Holy Word The Bible! [O.T.]: The Torah as strands of gold that glue our broken clay-vessel back together, and that are woven into the very fabric of the universe. The Ketuvim as music that flows from the Tabernacle of David that had fallen and then been lifted-up; The Netuvim as the resounding of the sound of the Shofar from Heaven that both cuts and heals; Brit HaChadashah [N.T.]: as the Shamash that lit the Menorah of the universe and sheds Light on all men. And then let Ruach HaKodesh [The Holy Spirit] of YHVH Elohim/God lead & constrain & restrain us by His Word in the way we should go. Only then will we be able to discern the words of all men, - whether they are words that are as the moon which reflect the Light of the Word of YHVH Elohim and give Him glory, - or are words that are empty and dry as a river-bed in a drought.